Girtz offers some thoughts
Athens-Clarke County District Nine Commissioner Kelly Girtz was kind enough to stop by and participate in our discussion regarding the traffic calming measures for residential neighborhoods. He offered a good bit of clarity for me, which is much appreciated.
Here's his comment ...
Thanks, Jmac, for highlighting the neighborhood traffic management issue. The history of the ACC program, and some engineering details are important to keep in mind.
The program has always been written to assume a shared cost between a neighborhood and the general fund, based on the level of cut-through traffic. As one writer notes, this relies on accepted standards of measuring vehiclular trips from homes - standards which have been verified through data collection in Athens neighborhoods.
Invariably, in implementing the program, past commissions would point at the scourge of cut-through traffic in every neighborhood, no matter what the traffic engineers told them. This meant that all funds used were general fund dollars. The current commission has agreed to heed the reports of staff regarding the actual split of local v. cut-through traffic. If this approach doesn't come to pass, I recommend you park your junkers in front of their driveways. Y'know - immediate and appropriate consequences.
The 35mph threshhold is important because that is the point at which traffic calming devices (speedhumps, etc.) begin to slow traffic. The haul-ass folks are actually the folks more impacted, on average. Those speeding at "only" 30mph on a residential street tend not to slow down for a speedhump.
Nicki mentions chicanes, chokers, and some other options - all of which the Transportation and Public Works department has in their arsenal. It was an overwhelming preference of the citizen committee studying this issue that the whole toolbelt be brought to bear, not just the often-rightly-maligned speedhump. Furthermore, the new ACC traffic engineer Steve Decker is fanastic, and can offer neighborhoods other general advice. For example, speed may not be the issue for your 'hood so much as volume and lack of sidewalks.
As mentioned in Blake's article, we are going to continue to meet to work on more macro-level speed and safety policy issues, such as policing and enforcement. The "traffic calming device" program is appropriate in some cases, but is limited in its effectiveness.
So, alright - send your good ideas to me at kgirtz@yahoo.com
Best,
Kelly
Here's his comment ...
Thanks, Jmac, for highlighting the neighborhood traffic management issue. The history of the ACC program, and some engineering details are important to keep in mind.
The program has always been written to assume a shared cost between a neighborhood and the general fund, based on the level of cut-through traffic. As one writer notes, this relies on accepted standards of measuring vehiclular trips from homes - standards which have been verified through data collection in Athens neighborhoods.
Invariably, in implementing the program, past commissions would point at the scourge of cut-through traffic in every neighborhood, no matter what the traffic engineers told them. This meant that all funds used were general fund dollars. The current commission has agreed to heed the reports of staff regarding the actual split of local v. cut-through traffic. If this approach doesn't come to pass, I recommend you park your junkers in front of their driveways. Y'know - immediate and appropriate consequences.
The 35mph threshhold is important because that is the point at which traffic calming devices (speedhumps, etc.) begin to slow traffic. The haul-ass folks are actually the folks more impacted, on average. Those speeding at "only" 30mph on a residential street tend not to slow down for a speedhump.
Nicki mentions chicanes, chokers, and some other options - all of which the Transportation and Public Works department has in their arsenal. It was an overwhelming preference of the citizen committee studying this issue that the whole toolbelt be brought to bear, not just the often-rightly-maligned speedhump. Furthermore, the new ACC traffic engineer Steve Decker is fanastic, and can offer neighborhoods other general advice. For example, speed may not be the issue for your 'hood so much as volume and lack of sidewalks.
As mentioned in Blake's article, we are going to continue to meet to work on more macro-level speed and safety policy issues, such as policing and enforcement. The "traffic calming device" program is appropriate in some cases, but is limited in its effectiveness.
So, alright - send your good ideas to me at kgirtz@yahoo.com
Best,
Kelly
posted by Jmac at 6:03 PM
4 Comments:
Kelly - lord knows I don't want to harp on the negative - especially when you encourage us (correctly!) to send in good alternative ideas. Well, I sure don't have any - short of a political upheaval that would allow cops to run radar in front of my house.
My experience in neighborhoods etc. etc. tells me speed bumps (what we're really talking about here, right?) just don't have much of an impact. You said:
"Those speeding at "only" 30mph on a residential street tend not to slow down for a speedhump."
These folks are exactly the problem. Especially since most suv's can absorb the punishment a speed bump dishes out. So they don't impact the folks that are the "imminent danger" drivers - and in my role in Cedar Creek I see just how divisive they can be.
A long winded rumination to ask a short question:
- If they don't work, they're expensive, and they make a lot of folks angry - why would we build more?
I'm NOT anti-speed bump, I'd rather have them than not. I'm just not sold on the cost vs. effectiveness angle.
What other alternatives are there out there? Could we REALLY afford to put in the euro-style traffic circles everyone is gaga over? If so, how do we get one too?
Thanks!
David Hamilton
There is a traffic circle in the Normaltown area, right? On Boulevard? It seems to work fairly well from what I can gather, but I'm not over there enough to say that for certain.
I like traffic circles to an extent, but I can't even begin to image the costs of putting those things in across the community. Before we do something like that, I'd much rather see a hefty investment in multi-use pathways.
Of course, I'd like to see a hefty investment in starting up a small business insurance pool, but that's just me.
There is a traffic circle in the Normaltown area, right? On Boulevard?
Is that what that is? Yes there is something there, but I'm not sure I'd call it a circle, more like a chicane.
It's a bear to get through in a larger vehicle like a PU truck or with a trailer--- or course that's probably fine with the Boulevard elite.
SC has a lot of traffic circles at rural highway intersections, and they work very well. Of course they are big enough to drive around. I'm sure they are intended to address the problems of "rolling stops" at highway intersections.
Of course the French are big on them, which may not be a plus.
I can't see them in an urban environment where they are not part of the original plan because of the room they require.
To clarify - not beating dead horses here - I think there is absolutely no way we could feasibly integrate traffic circles on a large scale. The "circles" in Blvd. and on Sunset were built into the original design of the street years and years ago.
I don't see how we could possibly afford them -yet I hear them bandied about as a possible solution to the speeding problem. Feels good to dream, but it ain't happenin'.
David
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