Catfight!
I noticed this little exchange a few nights back, but had neglected to comment on it and, as a result, Blake beat me to punch ... and, yes, Kathy Hoard was more than a little sassy. In fact, I'd say she was a little unreasonable ...
Carl Jordan has little sympathy, and again proposes auctioning off the scarce spaces, prompting the first rebuke of the evening from a particularly sassy Kathy Hoard, who told him to butt out.
"If you do not live here or represent this area or have attended public hearings to hear the concerns ... perhaps you don’t know what the issues are," she said. "This does not affect Kingswood Drive."
For starters, it's kinda poor form to go that personal, but whatever. Why shouldn't Jordan, or any other commissioner/resident, be able to offer up their thoughts on the issue at hand or suggest alternative ideas to address the concerns? Even if Jordan hadn't heard the 'concerns' does that make his idea less worthy of consideration? If it's not applicable, then merely explain why and move on. Chastising him, presumably because you disagree with his suggestion, seems misplaced to me.
Listen, people get frustrated with each other and they disagree over issues, sometimes quite vehemently. But I'm a big believer in keeping the discussion respectful and civil, as well as listening as someone puts forth an idea ... even if I disagree with them (notice the number of lengthy posts Xon puts up here that I gladly accept because, even though I think his rationales are almost completely off-base, I like that he's here sharing them).
Carl Jordan has little sympathy, and again proposes auctioning off the scarce spaces, prompting the first rebuke of the evening from a particularly sassy Kathy Hoard, who told him to butt out.
"If you do not live here or represent this area or have attended public hearings to hear the concerns ... perhaps you don’t know what the issues are," she said. "This does not affect Kingswood Drive."
For starters, it's kinda poor form to go that personal, but whatever. Why shouldn't Jordan, or any other commissioner/resident, be able to offer up their thoughts on the issue at hand or suggest alternative ideas to address the concerns? Even if Jordan hadn't heard the 'concerns' does that make his idea less worthy of consideration? If it's not applicable, then merely explain why and move on. Chastising him, presumably because you disagree with his suggestion, seems misplaced to me.
Listen, people get frustrated with each other and they disagree over issues, sometimes quite vehemently. But I'm a big believer in keeping the discussion respectful and civil, as well as listening as someone puts forth an idea ... even if I disagree with them (notice the number of lengthy posts Xon puts up here that I gladly accept because, even though I think his rationales are almost completely off-base, I like that he's here sharing them).
posted by Jmac at 12:28 PM
18 Comments:
She was too easy on him. I would've said, "This does not affect Idaho, which seems to be the only neighborhood you give a damn about in the last year or so."
Look, I used to like Carl. I used to be annoyed but amusedly tolerant of his constant rambling and ranting.
But, when you fail to show up at a meeting to address what might be the single most dire issue facing Athens in years (namely, the drought, and specifically the Step F meeting last month), because you were vacationing in Idaho, then I don't necessarily know that you shouldn't keep your mouth shut.
Could Kathy have been more genteel about it? Sure. But I believe that her remarks are reflective of the mood of many Commissioners. To wit, they're tired of seeing Carl Jordan, part time Commissioner, and perhaps they, like me, wonder if he even has in skin in the local game anymore.
Yep. Well, I have a arm's-length admiration for Kathy Hoard. I usually like her, agree with her, whatever. But sometimes I think she's bitchy. This would be one such example.
Besides which, what's the issue here? Is the issue that Five Points residents don't like on-street parking for vaguely-defined reasons like "it looks bad" or "I hate students parking in front of my house?" Or is the issue a generally-legally-supported one, like that people are creating dangerous situations with inappropriate parking or are keeping Five Points from the reasonable use of parking which they need? That's the thing about P Street -- the residents don't necessarily have driveways, or adequate driveways. They have to park on-street.
I'm a big fan of on-street parking, anyway. Jordan notes how it functions for Pulaski -- that's how it would function anywhere, and it's kind of stupid for people to forego a basically-free traffic calming service in favor of a pricey traffic calming service that also invalidates some federal and state road funding, slows down emergency vehicles, etc.
As for the possible concerns...there are ways to deal with those that would work very effectively with selling spots. If it's dangerous, then yellow-curb. If it's taking needed parking from residents, then provide them with low-cost or free permits, while you sell others.
P.S. Holla, Pulaski!
"wonder if he even has in skin in the local game anymore."
Sorry, that should be, "wonder if he has any skin in the local game anymore.
You get mad when Kathy Hoard snaps at Carl, but you looked the other way last year when Davey fumed at me from his seat after I got up to offer comment - and I believe you posted something praising Heidi Davison for smartmouthing some developer.
Do I state the facts correctly?
You get mad when Kathy Hoard snaps at Carl, but you looked the other way last year when Davey fumed at me from his seat after I got up to offer comment - and I believe you posted something praising Heidi Davison for smartmouthing some developer.
Do I state the facts correctly?
Well, as usual, no.
I never knew David Lynn chastised you. Had I know, I would have taken a look at it. I do recall offering some criticism of what I felt was a lack of tact on Lynn's part regarding a last-minute addition to the agenda last year regarding the relocation of some fraternities and what I felt was his rude handling of the matter and treatment of former District Nine Commissioner Tom Chasteen.
I also credited Heidi Davison for rightly calling out what was a poorly handled presentation and one gentleman who went above and beyond to not only disparage the commission and concerned residents, but then proceeded to make thinly veiled racial insults toward students at Fourth Street Elementary.
That's a nice try on your part though.
You didn't? I'm sure I had the video from it somewhere on my campaign site - of course they eliminated it from the official minutes of the meeting, so I had to keep the video to prove it.
Anyway I'm not trying to criticize Dave for that, it happened over a year ago and it was actually kind of funny.
And you do seem to continue to approve of the Empress' smart mouthing people who you disagree with. So why is it ok for her to smart mouth people, but not ok for Kathy Hoard to lay into Carl Jordan?
(Note that I'm not trying to be a great knight in shining armour defending Kathy Hoard - I think that while she's usually in the right on most things, she certainly sprang a leak in the dinghy of her mind when she changed her vote and voted in favor of more restrictions on downtown.)
"of course they eliminated it from the official minutes of the meeting, so I had to keep the video to prove it"
That's because the Clerk of Commission only keeps "action minutes" --ie a summary of who speaks, and what gets passed and what was the vote. If you've ever bothered to look at the minutes on the ACC website (!) you'll see that they never talk about who said what. Contrary to your emerging little conspiracy theory effort, actually you were treated no differently than anyone else (of course, not that that will stop your complaining, but why let facts get in the way of your argument, right? :-) ).
Hey Al, nice to see you again. I saw you on Rosh Hashana; you're a lot older than I anticipated.
Anyway, the minutes of that meeting will not reveal that David Lynn even said anything. He did say something, but that was eliminated from the meeting minutes, probably at your little wifelet's orders.
First of all, anon wasn't Al. I am not and never have been called Al.
Second, the minutes won't reveal that Lynn said anything in the same way they don't report what any commissioner says because, for the second time, they are ACTION MINUTES. Take your head out of your rear end and actually look at the Mayor and Commission minutes some time before complaining yet again about non existent sleights. You might actually learn a thing or two (though, of course, complaining endlessly w/out knowing what you're talking about is much easier).
So you're not Al Davison. I'm very happy for you. (Seriously, I am.)
Nevertheless, look at the minutes.
Finally, wtf is the point of all this yabbering? My initial point was that Jmac looked the other way when David did that. He says that he didn't know. Jmac is an honest man; if he says that he didn't know, then he didn't know. That, as far as I'm concerned, is the end of that matter. So what are you still going on about it for?
Technically, it wasn't the end of it, since you did ask Johnathan for more explanation of why you perceive him to hold a double-standard. Anonymous was pointing out that the minutes have never repeated the kind of information you think they should be. However, it should be noted that publicly broadcasting the information on our local cable channels to where anyone, even you, can record it is indication enough that they aren't hiding all of that information by not including it in the minutes. It is available for people to record at home as they see fit, and apparently you exercised that ability and made a copy. I think I watched it one time, too, off your webspace.
If there were some attempt to hide what happened, why even broadcast at all?
Also, "dinghy of her mind?" This makes no sense, even as a metaphor. I know you appreciate the sprinkling of some form of decent wit in your criticisms of our elected officials, but if it makes no sense, it loses its punch. For instance, "You may as well wash that with the luffa of your feelings!" or "No wonder your herrings are pickled like the politics you endorse!" don't really make a lick of sense.
In other news, Carl Jordan has now emerged as the voice of free markets on the Athens-Clarke County Commission.
That has to qualify as a sign of the apocolypse.
"Nevertheless, look at the minutes."
I do regularly and, for a third time, they are action minutes --in other words, they say who spoke at the podium, what was passed, and which commissioners voted which way. They NEVER say what commissioners actually say. Ergo, whatever comments Lynn may or may not have made about you are not recorded because that's how the minutes are done, not because of some grand conspiracy against you.
"So what are you still going on about it for?"
Because you keep going on and on as if this were some great conspiracy against you by Heidi et al, when it's clearly not. First of all, it's the Clerk who takes the minutes and they are approved by the Commission, so Heidi has nothing to do w/ it. Second, you're just not that important to build a cinspiracy against (and I really am not trying to make that sound snotty; no citizen's comments are recorded, and no Commissioner's are either). SO, get over the conspiracy crap.
Poulos: Look at what zany metaphors did for Dan Rather.
Anyway, not to belabour the rather moot point; but minutes usually record that a Commissioner said something during closing comments. In that particular meeting, the minutes do not record him even speaking at all.
But when Jmac says that he didn't know about Dave's little screech fest, I take him at his word. I will accept that he did not "look the other way" when that happened. I thought he did know about it and just looked the other way; now I know that I was wrong about that - so that dog won't bark or eat his kibbles n bits.
I have to side with Chuck here, just to clear up the facts. The minutes usually list which commissioners and residents spoke at the end of the meeting and give a brief outline of what they said.
I can't remember which meeting Chuck and David were going at it, so I can't check to see if it's in the minutes. If anyone rememembers, look in the documents section of the ACC Web site.
P.S. Chuck, David let you off easy considering what you'd been saying about him.
Except that the minutes related to Commissioners at the end of the mtg generally refer to: 1) requests to staff; 2) general thanks to people for various things.
I didn't see whatever it was that David and Chuck got into, but the fact that it's not recorded in the minutes is neither a conspiracy nor directed at him specifically, esp as it'd be on the video of the mtg. Furthermore, it has nothing to do w/ either Heidi or any of the other Commissioners, who don't take the minutes. Get over your bad self, Chuckie boy!
Well I'll be... Blake Aued actually siding with ME! I don't know whether to wind my music box or buy my mama a diamond ring! (Of course, I don't actually have a music box, so that makes it easier.) I like these metaphors.
Anyway for the record: http://www.athensclarkecounty.com/documents/pdf/clerkofcommission/minutes/2006/04_04_06.pdf
Sorry about that. It was the April 4, 2006 meeting.
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