Forest for the trees
Don't get me wrong, I think that BikeAthens does a lot of good things and is deserving of praise for its work in promoting alternative transportation in this community. But it's letters like Brad Aaron's this past weekend which make me want to shout 'you're missing the bigger picture!'
In the letter, Aaron criticizes the Athens-Clarke County Commission, Kathy Hoard in particular, for daring to ask how the community could calm traffic ... all because Hoard and five other (various) commissioners opted against the specific ones proposed by BikeAthens. So Aaron's problem is not that the commission isn't doing anything, it's that the commission isn't doing what he wants them to do.
Heck, he even admits as much - 'The current majority - including Hoard - consistently ignores ... most recommendations from BikeAthens, the only citizen organization in Athens-Clarke County devoted to traffic calming.'
So it's my way or the highway? Pardon the horrific pun.
And what's the primary focus of his criticism? You guessed it ... it's the nonsensical idea to three-lane Prince Avenue from Milledge Avenue on to downtown. I don't know why the advocates of this proposal haven't realized this train has done run. With Jackson County entering a period of solid growth, and with these people finding jobs in Athens-Clarke County (and their working here is very beneficial to our growth and development as a community), their main corridor to downtown is Prince Avenue. As a result, this road is seeing increased traffic.
So, forgive me if I think the commission made the appropriate decision in saying that three-laning this portion of the road would lead to worse traffic rather than 'calm' it.
And I've never truly gotten what 'calming traffic' means. Does it mean slowing it down? Because I've seen plenty of people speed right along three-lane roads ... and I've seen cars detour to quiet neighborhoods to avoid congestion on our primary roads (roads designed for such traffic flows).
Does it mean increasing gridlock and stretching my commute time from home-to-work into a 25-minute ordeal? If that's the case, than traffic-calming is doing a bang-up job on Hawthorne Road, where cars stretch back from the Oglethorpe Road intersection all the way back to Atlanta Highway.
Does it mean making it more conducive for pedestrians? If that's that case, than those four people sitting outside at The Grit, the handful of folks walking along Hawthorne Avenue and two or three cyclists I see outside of campus must be thrilled.
There simply are more cars than bikes, and more cars are used to travel to work and recreation than bikes or walking. This isn't to say that I'm opposed to any sort of plan to promote alternative transportation, it's just that said plan must respect the vast majority of people in this community who rely on their vehicle for transporation.
It's why plans like Alice Kinman's multi-use pathway proposal for Old Hull Road are the future of this community, because it accomodates all parties (and, to be fair, Aaron did mention this in his litany of complaints). It's why finding a way to keep Prince Avenue from Milledge Avenue to downtown and finding/creating bike lanes and paths are necessary for this community to work.
Take speed humps for example. Sure, they're annoying ... but they also cause me to drive considerably slower in a neighborhood or area which has them. You want to slow traffic down by The Bottleworks? Stick two or three of those things over there, with a pedestrian walkway in the middle ... I'd venture to say folks will slow down.
Same goes for traffic circles (like the ones found along Boulevard), though I don't like the idea of closing off neighborhoods to thru traffic ... primarily because that seems incredibly hard to enforce.
I'm all for Aaron's ultimate goal of creating a safe environment for pedestrians and cyclists, but he's also got to understand that simply three-laning every road in this community won't accomplish that. It's time to think outside the box, and here's hoping he takes a long hard look in the mirror and comes up with some of these ideas rather than offer criticism when his organization's plans aren't rubber-stamped by the commission.
In the letter, Aaron criticizes the Athens-Clarke County Commission, Kathy Hoard in particular, for daring to ask how the community could calm traffic ... all because Hoard and five other (various) commissioners opted against the specific ones proposed by BikeAthens. So Aaron's problem is not that the commission isn't doing anything, it's that the commission isn't doing what he wants them to do.
Heck, he even admits as much - 'The current majority - including Hoard - consistently ignores ... most recommendations from BikeAthens, the only citizen organization in Athens-Clarke County devoted to traffic calming.'
So it's my way or the highway? Pardon the horrific pun.
And what's the primary focus of his criticism? You guessed it ... it's the nonsensical idea to three-lane Prince Avenue from Milledge Avenue on to downtown. I don't know why the advocates of this proposal haven't realized this train has done run. With Jackson County entering a period of solid growth, and with these people finding jobs in Athens-Clarke County (and their working here is very beneficial to our growth and development as a community), their main corridor to downtown is Prince Avenue. As a result, this road is seeing increased traffic.
So, forgive me if I think the commission made the appropriate decision in saying that three-laning this portion of the road would lead to worse traffic rather than 'calm' it.
And I've never truly gotten what 'calming traffic' means. Does it mean slowing it down? Because I've seen plenty of people speed right along three-lane roads ... and I've seen cars detour to quiet neighborhoods to avoid congestion on our primary roads (roads designed for such traffic flows).
Does it mean increasing gridlock and stretching my commute time from home-to-work into a 25-minute ordeal? If that's the case, than traffic-calming is doing a bang-up job on Hawthorne Road, where cars stretch back from the Oglethorpe Road intersection all the way back to Atlanta Highway.
Does it mean making it more conducive for pedestrians? If that's that case, than those four people sitting outside at The Grit, the handful of folks walking along Hawthorne Avenue and two or three cyclists I see outside of campus must be thrilled.
There simply are more cars than bikes, and more cars are used to travel to work and recreation than bikes or walking. This isn't to say that I'm opposed to any sort of plan to promote alternative transportation, it's just that said plan must respect the vast majority of people in this community who rely on their vehicle for transporation.
It's why plans like Alice Kinman's multi-use pathway proposal for Old Hull Road are the future of this community, because it accomodates all parties (and, to be fair, Aaron did mention this in his litany of complaints). It's why finding a way to keep Prince Avenue from Milledge Avenue to downtown and finding/creating bike lanes and paths are necessary for this community to work.
Take speed humps for example. Sure, they're annoying ... but they also cause me to drive considerably slower in a neighborhood or area which has them. You want to slow traffic down by The Bottleworks? Stick two or three of those things over there, with a pedestrian walkway in the middle ... I'd venture to say folks will slow down.
Same goes for traffic circles (like the ones found along Boulevard), though I don't like the idea of closing off neighborhoods to thru traffic ... primarily because that seems incredibly hard to enforce.
I'm all for Aaron's ultimate goal of creating a safe environment for pedestrians and cyclists, but he's also got to understand that simply three-laning every road in this community won't accomplish that. It's time to think outside the box, and here's hoping he takes a long hard look in the mirror and comes up with some of these ideas rather than offer criticism when his organization's plans aren't rubber-stamped by the commission.
posted by Jmac at 6:57 AM
17 Comments:
I think Hawthorne is proof that three-laning major roads is a bad idea. End of argument.
And speed humps? Oh, how I hate speed humps.
And the only people biking to work are hippies, and most hippies still drive to work...albeit some sort of hybrid hatchback, but still.
I do think you're underrating the importance of pedestrians, McGinty. Or maybe "importance" is the wrong word. I guess I just mean that their needs really should be considered, even above cyclists. Who doesn't tend to have cars? The poor, fella. That's who. And they need to walk to catch buses. I'm not saying speed bumps are the answer, though.
I agree that BikeAthens has become less effective by being too impatient to work on gathering community support for their ideas - most of which have the right motivations. That letter was just plain dumb - not exactly the finest example of diplomacy.
What many people, including it would seem, Jmac, tend to miss is how many more people would walk or bike if it weren't perceived as being too dangerous. I know that I would love to walk more places but it is just terrifying to try walking and especially crossing streets with SUVs going by at nearly double the speed limit. Factor in our "guests" who come from metro-Atlanta communities where they've probably never seen a pedestrian or a bike on the road so, they don't even think to look for them.
So many people think the answer is better enforcement. Too bad that most of them also think that they pay too much in taxes, already. Well, the cost of every additional police officer (not to mention the extra administration to manage them and process all the extra tickets they would write) is the single most outrageously unacceptably expensive way to get folks to do what they are supposed to do in the first place! So, pouring some concrete and painting some lines is the only option that is even close to being cost-effective.
Georgia, in general, is so backward in the way it treats pedestrians! Travel up north and you'll see. In some states (such as Maine) entering a crosswalk while there is a pedestrian in it is an automatic loss of your license - no excuses! Not only is this safer, it also is very cheap because you don't even need those "walk/don't walk" lights.
Sure, most folks drive their cars everywhere. But, too many of them don't do it with any courtesy or thought to the safety of OTHERS! I hate speed humps as much as anybody - the neighbors around the speed humps don't like them much either because they create a lot of noise. Why do we have to put in stupid shit like that? Simply put, because too many people are just assholes behind the wheel. If we had people VOLUNTARILY abiding by the traffic laws, this whole issue, and the associated costs, would just go away! Of course, if frogs had wings...
btw - those who keep harping that nobody is walking or biking scare the shit out of me because there are plenty of people walking and biking - that just tells me that you just aren't even looking while you speed down the road. Maybe you're too busy text-messaging your helicopter parents or changing your CD.
If Hawthorne is proof that three-laning major roads is a bad idea, is Baxter proof that it's a good idea? Baxter is considerably easier to negotiate, and safer, three-laned. I would imagine it boils down to the traffic counts
JMac, I think you're legitimately trying to find a middle ground between the Aaron/McCommons position on the one hand (that failing to put bike lanes on Prince is the end of civilization), and the position exemplified by I'm a Realist ("the only people biking to work are hippies" so eff them, position).
I'm not sure you're quite there, yet, though. As Hillary notes, you're not fully considering the needs of pedestrians. Additionally, I would add that, despite the "Highway From Jackson County" characterization of Prince Avenue, Prince Avenue also bisects two thriving in-town neighborhoods (broadly, Boulevard on the one side and Cobbham/Talmadge Heights ("King Avenue") on the other). What's so wrong with regarding Highway 129 one way outside of the loop (as a commuter road) and another way when it's Prince Avenue inside the loop (truly a city street)? If much of the Jackson County crowd is coming into town to work at the University, why not encourage use of the loop to bypass downtown? Isn't that the point of a road like that?
Of course this raises the inadequacy of the entrance onto the loop if you're traveling south on 129, and the ridiculousness of the intersection where the loop stops being a loop. Problems with those intersections should not be a good reason to make Prince Avenue a commuter road all the way into downtown.
Darren
I did come across as being all for speed humps, and though I do like them, there is this implication that I absolutely love them. I think they're one part of the equation, and probably must effective near pedestrian pathways.
Our anonymous poster makes some valid points and they're well-taken. I'm not sure, however, if I completely agree with you about a mass exodus from cars to bikes/walking if we suddenly created a safer environment for it.
By all means, we should foster safe environments for folks walking to and fro, as well as for cyclists. However, most people who own a car are going to use said car to get to work and back. The only place where I see your argument working is perhaps from neighborhoods close to business sectors (for instance, Cobbham to The Bottleworks or parts of downtown Athens).
I, however, wouldn't even think to bike or walk to work (that would be a hike), and the majority of the population falls into that category. So I just don't see this turn away from cars to alternative transporation if we make it safer. Cars are going to be around, so the best thing we can do is to find a way to foster an environment where it's safe to walk and ride a bike, as well as provide adequate lanes of traffic to accomodate our growth and our neighboring communities' growth.
Well, that and encourage development of more efficient and cleaner-burning cars ...
Hillary, though, makes a good point I overlooked unintentionally. Increased mass transportation (i.e. buses) assists the poor, many of whom don't have cars. Hence why I haven't argued against encouraging alternative transporation, but just trying to strike a solid balance.
That's an interesting point Darren. What would be the closest entrance from the loop to downtown? Is it the Highway 78 exit? Or are you suggesting we develop some sort of alternate road?
I suppose the most direct loop to downtown path would be Peter Street, but I'm not proposing that as the best alternative (I'm TRYING to not take a position that leads to "eff their neighborhood as long as mine's ok"). So yeah, 78/Oconee Street might be the best exit, although that exit needs some re-work as well.
But yeah, get more people on the loop to get around downtown, and to use the University employees again as an example, exit at 78 if you work North Campus/downtown, College Station if you work East/South Campus.
And I agree with the Anonymous poster who pointed out that safety concerns stop many people from biking. I live in Talmadge Heights/Normaltown and work near Georgia Square, so it's not that far and I would be inclined to bike, but how the hell am I supposed to ride a bike on that portion of Atlanta Highway that crosses the loop without getting killed?
Darren
"mass exodus"? nowhere have I mentioned a mass exodus with people suddenly turning their cars into yard art.
one thing that always troubles me - OK, 2 things:
1) the false dichotomy of saying that everyone has to go one way or the other with their transportation choices - you know damn well that is not ever going to be the case. I own 3 motor vehicles and 2 bicycles but I would prefer to walk to the Kroger at Alps or down Baxter and sometimes I do - it's just scary as hell to do that most of the time. Downtown and Normaltown are too far for me to walk but not too far to bike - again, scares the shit out of me!
The way some folks like to frame this debate as an "either/or" is just non-productive. It's about accomodating ALL forms of transportation. Choices are good!
2) the other thing that I just cannot understand at all is why those who are of the "take my car away from my cold, dead hands" ilk is WHY would they not PREFER that everybody else in the world walk, bike, or take the bus so that they would have fewer cars to contend with on their precious roads?! Back in my younger days when I drove quite aggressively, I loved seeing fewer cars on the road so I could zoom around with fewer obstacles. My dream was always to be the only car on the road.
2)
Perhaps I mischaracterized your position with regard to the 'mass exodus' phrase, but I don't think I've been framing this as an either-or argument. I've advocated (twice now) that we need to find middle ground so both interests are protected.
My 'mass exodus' phrase was meant to express my skepticism that we really would see a significant increase in people pursuing alternative transportation if we, for instance, three-laned Prince Avenue from Milledge Avenue to downtown. You had said more folks would walk and/or ride if it wasn't perceived as dangerous. I took that and jumped the gun, so my apologies.
I live in Talmadge Heights/Normaltown and work near Georgia Square, so it's not that far and I would be inclined to bike, but how the hell am I supposed to ride a bike on that portion of Atlanta Highway that crosses the loop without getting killed?
Dude, that is a haul. More power to you, my friend.
It is very dangerous stretch, and I'd like to see that area, in particular, targeted for some sort of multi-use pathway (I'm a big fan of those types of things). I'd also like to see some sort of parallel cycling/pedestrian pathways which get you from Point A to Point B, but don't necessarily put you on the same road as cars (I think it'd be scenic and safe ... though we're probably talking about a significant investment here).
Toooo-tally with you on the multi-use pathways that are separate fromt the roadbed. Where possible, autos and bikes should not be on the same road, at least in our culture where most auto drivers are oblivious.
Of course, the separate multi-use paths can be expensive, and become logistically difficult in more urban settings (like the stretch of Prince that was being considered for three-laning).
Darren
hmm...separate but equal? I think I've seen that movie.
Seriously, there can be absolutely no problem and therefore no reason why all forms of transportation choices can't be accomodated with the same infrastructure but, it will require a different mindset among those with the most horsepower and wrapped in a couple of tons of steel.
First, there needs to be a recognition of the importance of sharing the roadways. That means that it might take an extra 60 sconds to get where you're trying to drive to but, hell, you're going to spend that much time trying to find a place to leave your second-largest investment (parking, I mean). Drivers also need to remind themselves that they are sitting in a luxury environment, leather seats, air conditioned or heated, 24-speaker stereo, weather-proofed, etc. while others are not. Who, in that scenario, can afford to be the more generous and courteous?
Next, our traffic laws are there for a reason. An oft-cited survey says that something like 80% of our drivers consider themselves to be "above average drivers" - I'm no math genius but I'm guessing that's not correct. A little engineering lesson in vehicle dynamics might help some of them - like recognizing that you cannot safely operate a Humscalade in the same manner as a sports car and you certainly can't operate it safely while yakking on a cellphone, smoking, eating, drinking, discipling your children, playing with your audio system, putting on make-up, shaving, etc. Nobody much seems to take driving as a serious thing that requires some focus. You also cannot operate some micro-car safely at 80+ mph on the interstates. I digress.
The thing is, if everyone obeyed the traffic laws, VOLUNTARILY, then the roads would be safe enough to accomodate all forms of transportation. It would also reduce the costs of operating the roadways in many ways.
Now, one last thing, people these days have a weird concept about roads - they think that roads are made for cars. Roads, other than interstates, have never been built exclusively for motor vehicles. I mean that is PUBLIC space and it's just about the only public space we have for traveling. Most private property owners don't really want their private property used as a public thoroughfare - not for walking, biking, driving, or anything else. So, to get from Point A to Point B, our streets and roads are all we've got. No matter what form of transport you choose, that's the space you use!
So, if you don't want more 3-laning and you don't like bike lanes and you don't want sidewalks and you don't like paying taxes then, for fuck's sake - learn to drive like there are other people in the world besides yourself!
OK, Jmac - this is not pointed at you. I understand your positions, I think, and you're a good guy. The problem is that you are in the minority - most folks around here just suck at driving.
Speed humps are funny -- they don't slow me down at ALL. Crossing one at 35 mph is comfortable enough in my car. But perhaps their work is in slowing down people that go 45. Of course, I imagine they really slow down fire trucks and ambulances -- do we put that into our cost considerations when we frame the enforcement-vs.-bumps and stripes debate?
Let's add, too, that those who do slow down for speed bumps promptly speed up again (or more so) once past them. I used to experience this five or so times a morning on my walk to my bus stop.
I've argued for separate but equal quite a bit. It's just not a workable solution for the present. I'm not sure what is. Making cars that can't go above a certain speed? Encouraging people to live near where they work (and helping make that possible)? A decent public transportation system?
I will confirm that people do drive awfully fast on Prince. I was walking along it the other day, and I busted ass even at small crossroads out of fear.
As a resident of an area that actually has spent money on bike paths seperate from the road, they work 99% of the time. I must say that I can't stand it when some of the bicycle enthusiast touristas on Island City forego the luxury of their own paths and choose instead to continue riding in the road, however.
I do not begrudge them this in the few areas where bike paths are not present, but it really ticks me off when there are bike paths present but they still ride in the road. Especially when that road is bounded closely by trees or is hard by the marsh. Or on the damn causeway, which is already a murder alley for normal traffic, and the bike path is wide, accomodating and set (at places) up to 20 feet from the dern highway.
As far as Athens is concerned, I've never seen anything finer than the three laning of Lumpkin and Baxter. When I was at school there back in the day, those roads were both four lane racetracks. Now, everytime I visit, traffic seems much calmer.
I associate traffic calming with a lack of lane changing and general jackassery that comes along with cars weaving in and out of two lanes trying to race. Or turning left. Turning left is taking your life into your own hands on a four lane road - Baxter used to be notorious for this. Three laning a road ends all of the above, and allows the creation of bike lanes off to the sides.
I think it would be a fine idea to do the same to Prince Avenue.
One of Patrick's points, regarding the dangers created by constant lane-changing and people having to make left turns from regular lanes, is one I should have made earlier. The "four lanes makes for faster travel than three" logic breaks down somewhat when you factor in that Prince Avenue is lined with commercial real estate that drivers are trying to get into and out of all the time. The result is drivers stopping in the inside lane of either direction to make left turns into Dunkin' Donuts, their doctor's office, etc. If you're behind such a person, you have to either wait it out or try to dart around them.
The result is that you have a lot of stopping and starting as well as erratic lane changing as drivers (myself included) try to get around those in the left lane that are stopping to turn, but not get stuck behind some other slowass in the right-hand lane.
With three-laning (now dead, I presume, in any event), those making left turns get into the turn lane, and the lanes for traffic keep moving.
I understand the "four lanes move more traffic than two" rationale, but unless you're going to install a median on Prince preventing left turns, I'm not convinced that the current four lanes really do move more cars more efficiently than three-laning would do. If Prince Ave has too much traffic for three-laning (which our local government's traffic experts insist is NOT the case), then the logical step would be a median or the like to prevent left turns (except at designated places) and keep the traffic moving.
I guess I'm saying the decision should be made based on the empirical data, instead of based on some false "hippies versus SUVs" dichotomy.
By the way, it should be interesting to see how Prince Avenue traffic patterns change in a few years once Piedmont College has moved into the Prince Avenue Baptist space, and once something (presumably) goes into the current St. Joseph's space.
Darren
It's just one of those weird things where, I agree, three-laning works like a charm on Baxter, is kinda half-and-half on Lumpkin and awful on Hawthorne. What's it going to be like if we three-lane Prince Avenue? No one knows, but my initial reaction is all of that traffic suddenly bottles up streaming into downtown.
As a pseudo-related note ... I forgot Prince Avenue Baptist would be moving. Is anyone else with me in thinking that bike lanes and/or multi-use-pathways can be carved out over there all the while keeping four-lanes? Those parking spots on the road won't be used as much anymore, so why not convert them into something else. Plus, it's pretty dangerous to be parking along that corridor anyway.
I can agree that any road with enough traffic to be considered for more than 2 lanes should never have on-street parking.
I also agree that Prince Ave is not really a 4-lane at present in its function. With all that left-turning going on, it really has never been a 4-lane road in any sense other than the way its painted.
Hawthorne has never been wide enough to be a 4-lane road and it's not very likely that it could be made any wider. The problem with Hawthorne cannot be solved with 4-laning because you still have lots of left-turning from both directions. The only real solution and possibly the cheaper one is to make a new road that gives people another route from Prince to the Atlanta Highway. I drove Hawthorne every working day for more than 10 years and it did not function a bit better when it was 4-lanes but it seems worse now because of the increase in development and cars on that side of town.
One thing I find really stupid is that we let businesses line both sides of main traffic arteries and them give them all their own driveways.
I did a search for an answer to a bingo question on netscape and found this blog, and this rediculous Mecca bingo song/video...Brace yourselves!.
Bingo Video. First I discovered Berryz and C-ute and Mesume, now this super huge chic group...What next!
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