Couple of things
- As noted yesterday, Partners for a Prosperous Athens released 150 recommendations to combat poverty in Athens-Clarke County. In the next few months, a steering committee will help whittle this list down into more concise and specific goals (for instance, the organic farming option might just not be picked up). There are some good ideas there, particularly regarding ideas to encourage entrepreneurship in this area. I got through about a fourth of it last night and will read up a little more.
- Wow. The kids in Fort Valley sure know how to have a good time ... 'hey, let's get all liquored up and attack Hairy Dog at the Georgia-Jacksonville basketball game.' What a bunch of morons.
- This is a pretty good piece by Jeffrey Whitfield on the Greene County charter school fiasco. From what I can gather from the situation, is that this charter school won't hold up to the scrutiny. If it gives preference to students who live within a specific geographical area, then it would appear to have set up some sort of admission policy ... at least loosely. I suppose my thing is why don't these folks set up their own private school? The intent is clearly two-fold - to avoid having to send their children to school with the poorer children in town and to establish a school where they can control who attends it and what is taught there. It definitely isn't like these folks don't have the money to set up something like a privately funded Lake Oconee Academy for White Kids or anything.
- Regarding this, I've got to say that I don't necessarily see Thomas Hinson being that much at fault. If the kid was violating the law - and walking down the middle of a busy two-way street is a violation of the law - then it would seem appropriate to inform them of this. Whether or not they deserve to be cited is another thing, but is something that should be left up solely to the responding officer. Now, as far as the use of pepper spray, we don't know much about that and that appears to more the fault of C.D. Moody, and not Hinson. The latter gave a legitimate request, and it seems odd to me that he is punished, while Moody never was.
- How convenient! I wonder if this academic probation is anything similar to the concussion he suffered after shoving a Georgia trainer during his freshman season. Is it wrong that I'm taking so much joy in the fact it's impossible for him to redeem himself now?
- Wow. The kids in Fort Valley sure know how to have a good time ... 'hey, let's get all liquored up and attack Hairy Dog at the Georgia-Jacksonville basketball game.' What a bunch of morons.
- This is a pretty good piece by Jeffrey Whitfield on the Greene County charter school fiasco. From what I can gather from the situation, is that this charter school won't hold up to the scrutiny. If it gives preference to students who live within a specific geographical area, then it would appear to have set up some sort of admission policy ... at least loosely. I suppose my thing is why don't these folks set up their own private school? The intent is clearly two-fold - to avoid having to send their children to school with the poorer children in town and to establish a school where they can control who attends it and what is taught there. It definitely isn't like these folks don't have the money to set up something like a privately funded Lake Oconee Academy for White Kids or anything.
- Regarding this, I've got to say that I don't necessarily see Thomas Hinson being that much at fault. If the kid was violating the law - and walking down the middle of a busy two-way street is a violation of the law - then it would seem appropriate to inform them of this. Whether or not they deserve to be cited is another thing, but is something that should be left up solely to the responding officer. Now, as far as the use of pepper spray, we don't know much about that and that appears to more the fault of C.D. Moody, and not Hinson. The latter gave a legitimate request, and it seems odd to me that he is punished, while Moody never was.
- How convenient! I wonder if this academic probation is anything similar to the concussion he suffered after shoving a Georgia trainer during his freshman season. Is it wrong that I'm taking so much joy in the fact it's impossible for him to redeem himself now?
posted by Jmac at 7:12 AM
15 Comments:
Some of the PPA's recommendations come off as really, really arrogant. Some are as broad as saying, "Let's cure cancer." That sounds great to say, but it doesn't really a) cure cancer or b) give any indication as to how to go about curing cancer.
Most of the issues that deal with education take the stance that teachers and administrators aren't really concerned with poverty and don't really do anything about it. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you work in Clarke County, under the regime of Louis Holloway, then you must have some motive keeping you there. No sane person would otherwise work under such conditions when Oconee Co., Barrow Co., and Madison Co. are all within a fifteen minute drive.
Finally, (and if we haven't already, this is where we shall depart in our thinking), the church is equipped to do many of the programs like mentoring and family engagement and others. One of the reasons that I oppose government intervention is because it totally takes God out of it. In reality, impoverished people need God more than they need a "living wage" or a high school diploma or a warm meal. The belief that it is the sole responsibility of the government to "fight poverty" is doing them more harm than good. As a Christian, would you rather impoverished people look to the Welfare office for their monthly food stamps, or to come to a church, where they can drink water where they will never thirst again... and eat bread to where they will never hunger?
You see, it's not that I believe impoverished people get what they deserve. On the contrary, I think the government is making damn sure well that they don't.
And to add to that...
Believers in the social gospel forget that there was a whole "make disciples" part of the great commission. Giving a man a fish, or even teaching a man to fish, is not totally what Jesus was about. His entire life was about being the perfect sacrifice. Not so all could eat. So that all may live... eternally.
The thing to keep in mind about PPA is basically this (old saying follows):
"Decisions are made by those who show up."
If you didn't participate then you can hardly sit as a critic. Everyone was invited to participate.
I'm not pointing this directly at the poster "Realist" - that's more of a general response to all of Athens. Those of us who attended every meeting and worked outside and between the meetings are not big fans of those who never did anything to help but want to pontificate about it.
You'll have other chances if you feel like doing some "adding" rather than just "subtracting".
Sorry for how snarky this sounds but, I really do mean it.
Al
As a Christian, I don't see why it cannot be both. I mean, realists also tend to be pragmatists, right? Well, there is the old biblical model of plundering the Egyptians. In this context, if some significant amount of the people wish to have their tax dollars used towards benefitting the physical and mental health of poorer people, then why not take advantage of that displaced charity and use it for those beneficial ends the church would be doing? Rather that than have the government build MOABs to test out on sovereign nations.
And, as King used to say, there's a lot of talk about white robes in Heaven, but people need clothes and shoes and pants right here. There's a lot of talk about the ever-flowing milk and honey, but people aren't getting their three meals right now. It can get to the point where the talk about God is duplicitous, always pushing off our expectations of a victorious life right here, right now to keep us from exhibiting a "kind of dangerous unselfishness."
Certainly there is a lot the church can do and should do, without first looking to the state. But why can't we seek for our government to work in parallel with helping out our brothers and sisters in need? Or, if not in parallel, at least not at odds with our efforts. I think you would agree with this much, realist, that every dollar the state spends in becoming a weighty bureacracy, or prosecuting a war, or building monuments to inefficiency is one less dollar available in the general exchange for doing something good.
If you didn't participate then you can hardly sit as a critic. Everyone was invited to participate.
Yes, and not all of us had time. Does that mean we can't give an opinion? This sort of argument leads to practically no one getting to talk (i.e., you know nothing if you haven't experienced exactly what I have experienced and therefore your opinion is completely invalid).
Here's what I know. Including the government takes complete control away from those that are at the scene... those who know best the needs of the community. If the government has control of the "aid," then they also have control of the funding. Take public housing for example. It's finally a program that works. The good housing authorities help house those that otherwise would not be able to find affordable housing. What does the government do? It reduces the appropriations to 78% of what is necessary to run the nation's housing authorities. Just when the government finds a program that works, they want to try to tweak it a little, or sometimes, even abandon it totally to start up a newer, kinder, gentler program.
And, unless you have lived in poverty, and know what it takes to get out, I don't think you should talk. Because, only those of us that have lived it truly understand the cycle.
In reality, impoverished people need God more than they need a "living wage" or a high school diploma or a warm meal.
But many of the impoverished people I've met are already Christians (and/or religious to some extent), and what you're doing is dividing the spiritual need from the immediate, physical need. A person who is a Christian (or, again, religious) doesn't have his/her hunger magically vanish, nor is their desire of shelter or clothing gone.
Speaking as a Christian, I don't mean to downplay one or the other, but I also think it's essential that we keep these things in perspective. As Charles noted, just because we have a government program which, say, provides some sort of social assistance to our citizens most in need doesn't deny the ability of the churches to lead the way in ministering and providing other services.
Consider IHN of Athens. This is a faith-based organization which uses the existing mechanisms in our community - public and private - and provides for the poorer citizens in our area. And you'd be hard-pressed to find an impoverished family in that network which feels assistance from the Athens Housing Authority or DFACS somehow detracts from their spiritual life.
Now you may have legitimate economical and ideological disagreements with public assistance (such as welfare), but couching that in a 'spiritual' argument is terribly faulty in my view.
And, unless you have lived in poverty, and know what it takes to get out, I don't think you should talk. Because, only those of us that have lived it truly understand the cycle.
Again! And from a different party. Come on, dudes who have studied rhetoric. I know you know the name for this kind of argument. I just can't think of it.
And, unless you have lived in poverty, and know what it takes to get out, I don't think you should talk. Because, only those of us that have lived it truly understand the cycle.
OK ... well then why are we discussing this? Obviously we can't contribute to this since we haven't had this particular experience.
It's also a weird additional argument. You claim to think public assistance is wrong, but then come back with the notion that 'well public housing is OK but then they tried to screw it up.' You can't base an argument around thinking government assistance is wrong, but than say some aspects are OK.
You're either OK with government assistance in some form, or you're not.
Hmmm...I don't know about this idea that you have to have lived in poverty to understand. I mean, I see the logic of the argument but, let me take the "other side" and, in the interest of brevity, I may be a bit harsh - I apologize in advance if it comes off as callous.
While it is important to get the perspective and listen to those who are now or have lived in poverty, could it not be argued that those living in poverty are expert only in the area of how to fail? By the same token, those who were born rich and privileged and will reamin rich and privileged, even if they are basically lazy and big losers, can't really help because they don't understand what it takes to succeed - just as those born in poverty and have failed to lift themselves out of that cycle can't be relied upon to provide good advice on how to succeed.
This is all very much stereotyping and generalizing so, you can attack that if you want but I'm going to ignore it because I've already confessed to that sin.
So, that leaves us (I include myself with great justification that I won't elaborate upon here) in the big, fat, majority, middle-class. Those of us who have, through our own efforts and with the support of others, raised our standard of living through the applied learnings and observations of what it takes to "get ahead" on our own initiative and efforts. Not to pat myself on the back too hard because I'm quite a long way from wealthy and don't expect to ever achieve that status because I don't value the accumulation of wealth beyond what I need to be as happy as I am at this moment.
I've got experience and lessons learned and the ever-present danger of having some catastrophic events that could wipe out my meager net-worth. I also know that I have the education and skills that would allow me to lift myself back up to where I am now in a relatively short time.
The lesson(s) I can share: How did I prepare myself to be in the position such that I have the confidence that I could move from abject poverty back to a comfortable life within a relatively short time?
Does that make me an expert? No! Does that make me a person who can make a contribution to others? Yes! All it takes is caring and wanting to help. PPA offers a vehicle and lets me join with others to build that synergistic force that might be able to make a difference in the lives of a few individuals.
The true path to failure, frustration, and despair in the efforts of PPA and the hundreds of participants is thinking that, in a few months from now, we will have lifted every single person in ACC out of poverty. Ain't gonna happen! Ten years from now, given the continuation of the same level of effort proposed by PPA with an assumption of perfect success in every goal, we're still going to have some portion of the population living in poverty.
The important thing is that you do the best you can to help as many as you can. For me, I will declare a success if we help just one person find their way out of the cycle of persistant poverty. Everyone beyond the first one will just be icing on the cake!
Sitting in the cheap seats and sniping at my efforts is a choice that anyone can make for themselves - have at it. The invitation to come our of the cheap seats and join in the game will always be there.
We are not required to complete the work but that is no excuse for failing to begin it. Right?
Having said all of that, let me be honest that I'm not completely satisfied with the recommendations that came out of the committee on which I served. In fact, I'm kind of embarrassed by them a little bit but, it's a start and they were arrived at through the honest efforts of several dozen people so, I'll take them. We'll work on them, refine them, evaluate their success/failure and figure out what we can do better and what we should do next. It's a very, very long process. It has taken decades to get where we are now and it ain't gonna change substantially in a few months or even a few years.
There's plenty of time for you to get involved - even 5 years from now. Donations of money are marginally useful int he short term but the lasting differences will come with donations of time from the citizens. Government's role is minimal in all of this - as it should be. Some facilitative support, beyond the "getting the ball rolling" stage is all I expect or really want.
OK, that's already too much. I'll stop.
Obviously, my comments didn't come off exactly as I meant them.
First, the idea of "poverty" in America is driven by the middle and upper classes. The reason I say this, is because, unless you have experienced this phenomenon of "living in poverty," you don't understand the mindset of the impoverished. Those that live in poverty do not know any better. They realize that there are more wealthy people out there, but very few if any sit around and stew over the idea that they are impoverished. Either they are happy with what they are and what they have, or they are actively working towards getting themselves out of poverty. Either way, you can't assist those that don't realize they need assistance. This idea is unfathomable to anyone who has not lived it, yet, based on my own experience, it is true.
Second, I don't think public assistance is wrong. I think it doesn't work, and therefore is a waste of time, money, and efforts that would otherwise be spent addressing a real problem. The example of public housing and the appropriations shortfall was to serve as an example of the fallacy of government control, not to downplay the need of social programs or to diminish their effectiveness. What's worse, finding a program that works, then underfunding it to the point that services are muted and ineffective, but can't be replaced by other services due to a lack of resources, or never intervening, allowing local programs to develop in the vaccuum of need and to sustain themselves based on merit?
Finally, there is a sense of pretentiousness in the idea of the PPA. A bunch of upper and middle-class folk are getting together to "cure" what ails all the poor folks. I know the poor were allowed to come out and give some ideas, but, like the retired cowboy said, that's like asking a drug addict the best way to prevent drug abuse. I'm sure Athens will be all the better because of the PPA. My criticism is only the ramblings of an ignorant fool, so no real debate is necessary. Doing something under the current circumstances is better than doing nothing but pining for better circumstances, I suppose.
And one final, last, little thing. Is poverty really as bad as everyone makes it out to be? I mean, the typical impoverished family has television, cable, air conditioning, a refrigerator, and access to an equal education as other wealthier kids. This isn't Kiberia we're talking about. Again, from my own experiences, I know that the impoverished are impoverished largely due to their own choices and priorities. For the most part, they are happy with these choices. Who am I to tell them they should be discontented with their life choices? That seems particularly arrogant to me. But, that's just me.
Realist makes several good points. From the standpoint of some, maybe I'm "poor" because I'm reasonably happy with my choices and my life style although my net worth is well below what many would find acceptable. So, I suppose it's relative.
Another good point is that you can only help those who really want it. My "problem" during many of our long discussions in our PPA group was how some folks defined "really wanting it". It was the opinion of several folks that if people really wanted to be helped, they would take advantage of the many, many programs and services already available. I argued that we needed to change (or augment) the delivery models for some of those services and programs because a lot of the working poor are working 2 or more jobs for more than 12 hours each day (often including the weekends) and getting to a specific location during a Monday through Friday, 8am until 5pm assistance program would mean giving up (perhaps even losing) one of their jobs. I don't pretend to have all the answers but I've been thinking about various delivery models that I've used successfully with other programs in the past - all of that based on the premise that teaching/learning is one of the most "portable" things in the world. An office, with "normal" office hours, filled with books and computers and counselors and other such resources takes the portability away - as well as the flexibility. Still thinking of ways to overcome that...
One last good point made is that our poor are generally a great deal better off than most of the poor in most of the world. Around the world, the poor live in tents (if they have that luxury) do not have easy access to clean water or bathrooms and have practically no services of any kind available. Our poor use our hospital emergency rooms as their primary care and that is outrageously expensive - driving up the cost of medical services to us all. In other parts of the world, there is no hospital anywhere near them and most just die when they get sick.
So, while there are worthy folks out there (I mean here in Athens) that really would like to raise their standards of living if they could be shown how, there are those who would rather curse the darkness than try to light a candle. I'm as much a bleeding heart, do-gooder as most but I have nothing to offer those who won't make any efforts at all. Still, I can't help but believe that it is possible to change "hearts and minds" with some effort. I just don't hope to change them all.
With all due sincere respect to the thoughtful comments posted here, is this discussion starting to remind anyone else of the "Robin Hood" sequence in Time Bandits?
"Have you met them?"
"Who?"
"The poor. Wonderful people. frightfully poor, of course.."
Per charter school...I agree. It escapes me why they just don't set up their own private school with whatever requirements they want. I wouldn't want to send my kids to a government school either. But do it right...geographic, religious, income preferences...well...that's what private schools can do. But why the nutty business with the Charter Schools? 'Tiz a puzzlement.
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