Couple of things
- I'm not opposed to the use of speed cameras, but I have two concerns. First, will these cameras be equally distributed throughtout the community. I'll be darned if we spend something $180,000 per camera and then these things get centralized in Five Points. The other one, and perhaps our resident law enforcement expert can assist us in this, but isn't going just five miles above the speed limit kinda low? Speedometers on cars tend to vary so what appears to be just two miles over to one person could actually be 7 miles over to a camera.
- Related to that story, I like the suggestions put forth by the Mayor and Commission to our local delegation, particularly the regional transportation sales tax, the income tax break for low-income workers and a loosening of money to assist communities develop sustainable affordable housing.
- Some necessary clarity on the economic development discussion.
- If you're looking for what will be an honest discussion of the Glenn Tax - one with both pros and cons - then head over to The Georgia Center today at 4 p.m. for a town hall meeting hosted by the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute.
- I'm really torn over this issue because I envision a large portion of Prince Avenue becoming one of the top medical corridors in Northeast Georgia, but one can also understand the desire to heed the wishes of local residents who want to preserve the mixed-use qualities of that area. I'm still mulling this thing over.
- Blake's got an interesting take on Carl Jordan's dual citizenship (of sorts) between here and Idaho. It is a source of frustration for a variety of folks ranging from residents of the Sixth District to, as Blake noted, some members of the local government. One would think that a more regular attendence pattern for the work sessions, and some voting meetings, would greatly streamline the process and shorten some meetings.
- I disagree Flack. Though I disagree with Jim Marshall's recent votes, he's arguably the most qualified candidate who has the best chance of winning in the general election. A victory by Robert Nowak, a longshot to say the least, would just hand the seat over to the GOP. Steve Allen's quote sums it up pretty nicely methinks.
- Flack does, however, have interesting and disturbing photos of a drought-stricken Lake Altoona.
- In news of the awesome music variety, Shooter Jennings is performing at The Georgia Theater on Oct. 17. In more news of the awesome music variety, if I'm up for driving to Macon on Nov. 8, I can catch Eric Church. And the final news of the awesome music variety, Bruce Springsteen's new album Magic is out.
- Related to that story, I like the suggestions put forth by the Mayor and Commission to our local delegation, particularly the regional transportation sales tax, the income tax break for low-income workers and a loosening of money to assist communities develop sustainable affordable housing.
- Some necessary clarity on the economic development discussion.
- If you're looking for what will be an honest discussion of the Glenn Tax - one with both pros and cons - then head over to The Georgia Center today at 4 p.m. for a town hall meeting hosted by the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute.
- I'm really torn over this issue because I envision a large portion of Prince Avenue becoming one of the top medical corridors in Northeast Georgia, but one can also understand the desire to heed the wishes of local residents who want to preserve the mixed-use qualities of that area. I'm still mulling this thing over.
- Blake's got an interesting take on Carl Jordan's dual citizenship (of sorts) between here and Idaho. It is a source of frustration for a variety of folks ranging from residents of the Sixth District to, as Blake noted, some members of the local government. One would think that a more regular attendence pattern for the work sessions, and some voting meetings, would greatly streamline the process and shorten some meetings.
- I disagree Flack. Though I disagree with Jim Marshall's recent votes, he's arguably the most qualified candidate who has the best chance of winning in the general election. A victory by Robert Nowak, a longshot to say the least, would just hand the seat over to the GOP. Steve Allen's quote sums it up pretty nicely methinks.
- Flack does, however, have interesting and disturbing photos of a drought-stricken Lake Altoona.
- In news of the awesome music variety, Shooter Jennings is performing at The Georgia Theater on Oct. 17. In more news of the awesome music variety, if I'm up for driving to Macon on Nov. 8, I can catch Eric Church. And the final news of the awesome music variety, Bruce Springsteen's new album Magic is out.
posted by Jmac at 7:12 AM
18 Comments:
With regards to Jim Marshall, I couldn't agree more. Jim votes Democratic 81% of the time. We are not talking about Zell here.
On the speedo issue, I'm not an expert but I do know that you can get a new set of tires, without changing size, just the type, and it will make you go faster than your speedometer is reading.
It's hard not to look at the traffic camera's as a revenue enhancer.
For the same $180,000.00 you could pay for three policemen, whose full time job would be traffic enforcement all over the town, plus be available for other purposes in case of emergency.
For the same $180,000.00 you could pay for three policemen, whose full time job would be traffic enforcement all over the town, plus be available for other purposes in case of emergency.
That's true, but then you also have to pay those three policemen $180K the next year. And the next. And so on.
That's true, but then you also have to pay those three policemen $180K the next year. And the next. And so on.
Yes you do, but the assumption is that their endeavors result in enough revenue to offset most of their cost. Three cops, each dedicated to traffic enforcement could easily cover their costs. Plus cops have the additional benefit of being able to make DUI, drug, and serious driving offenses, which the camera can't do.
Just like the camera, except the "net/net" isn't nearly as great.
If ACC has any questions about how to do this, and although Mayor Heidi is adverse to being advised by mayors from the hinterlands, it could seek the advise of Pendergras, which is doing very well speed trap wise, thank you very much.
It just seems strange to me that a community that prides itself on "quality" of life wouldn't even consider an alternative that would in fact improve the "quality of life" for the entire community, not just a locus of whining homeowners.
Considering the amount of people who hate driving through Pendergras, Arcade, and that whole stretch of 129, given the deep sticky mess in people's craw about it, I doubt that turning some portion of Athens into a traffic enforcement corridor with a handful of cops is appealing to anyone.
But, I dunno. That might fit into the idea that what we actually want is to drive people away from Athens...
Re using cops to take the place of the speed cameras. There are two issues, IMO:
1) the speed cameras are impartial --everyone is treated the same, so no claims of profiling, no cops letting certain people off because they know them, etc. Everyone is treated equally.
2) if you use cops, then every time there is a radio call for them to help another officer (say in a shooting situation) then they are obligated to go to their aid, which means that although you're hiring 3 cops to do traffic duty, those 3 cops will rarely do it.
2) if you use cops, then every time there is a radio call for them to help another officer (say in a shooting situation) then they are obligated to go to their aid, which means that although you're hiring 3 cops to do traffic duty, those 3 cops will rarely do it.
That's really a management issue isn't it. Besides, thanks goodness, we don't have that many shootings that require police response.
More specifically there are all sorts of specialized police details that don't answer general radio calls. We already have at least two motorcycle policemen who are nearly 100% traffic control. One spent nearly all day in front of Barnett Shoals School. In my simple mind, that kind of highly visible enforcement has more long term effect than the stupid camera.
Still seems to me to be a better community use of the funds than a camera staring at one intersection 24/7.
I mean really are we addressing a speeding problem by notoriously turning one intersection into a revenue generating speed trap? And you can be that one intersection isn't going to be in East Athens, or out off the Nowhere Road.
I think it could be part of a management issue but I think it's more that the ACCPD is woefully understaffed.
I don't think this is a revenue generating issue. Since the camera at Lex and Gaines School Rd was put in the number of accidents has dramatically declined --don't know about the one on Atl Hwy and Hawthorne.
I also don't think it's a speeding issue the cameras are addressing --I don't think they can even determine speed, but stand to be corrected on that one, not being an expert-- but a red-light-running issue. Certainly, that's the case in the 2 intersections where they currently are.
Slight correction: what I meant to say, was that the 2 sets we already have aren;t about speeding so much as red-light-running. Obviously, what Comm Kinman is talking about are for speed.
I think it's more that the ACCPD is woefully understaffed.
No argument there, but again whose fault is that?
Well, until we have a slew of citizens saying "raise my taxes to pay for more cops"...
a sure sign that the person speaking knows nothing about government is when they begin with the premise that some law is primarily for the purpose of generating more revenue.
I think some folks get confused with the term "Commissioner" and think that means they must be working on some compensation based on a percent of revenue - you know, like a commission salesperson.
so, you can argue this in a lot of different ways - for or against - but to argue that the point is to collect money is just ignorance.
The sad fact is that unless or until we can allow for some other kind of reasonable punishment for lawbreakers that endanger the lives of others (like beating, hanging, burying them in a fire ant hill, etc.) then, taking money from them is about all we've got to work with.
"burying them in a fire ant hill"
sounds like a good punishment for those who continue to water their lawns and roses during thr drought :-)
so, you can argue this in a lot of different ways - for or against - but to argue that the point is to collect money is just ignorance.
Well, I guess I'm ignorant, because I think that somewhere like Pendergrass, which takes in a $1000 per month per man, woman and child in traffic fines is driven more by the income aspect than a burning desire to impress on the local Hispanic population the scope of American traffic laws.,
Likewise, at the local level, I suggest that the zeal for the installation of robotic cameras would be somewhat less if the revenue beyond the cost of installation and maintenance had to be sent off to the state, or even reinvested into traffic control. I'm not arguing the prophylactic effect of lightening the miscreant's wallets, but the corollary to that is that the enthusiasm of the local government for a particular method is directly proportional to its income producing capacity, not its deterrence value.
Is it ignorant to think that legislators who propose raising taxes do so for the purpose of generating more revenue? Or am I being too facetious here?
Polus:
oh, that's just silly and you know it!
when taxes are levied and/or raised, the reason behind that action is very clearly stated - raising revenue to operate the government. Everybody says that right up front.
when criminal laws and associated punishments, methods of enforcement, etc. are enacted, the motivation is the protection of the health, safety, property, etc. and that is stated right up front, also.
the ignorance comes when people attempt to assign a different motivation to another person's or group's action - always dangerous and rarely accurate.
how about this, if you are so concerned about the collection of fines, let's urge our legislative bodies to suspend the driving privileges rather than collect money - does that make you happier? I'd say, for the first offense you lose your license for 1 month; 2nd offense gets a 3-month suspension; 3rd offense and subsequent offenses, you lose your driving privileges for at least 1 year or you can opt to be buried in a fire ant hill.
See? take the "money" out of it and see whether you still like the idea...if the idea of keeping someone from running over a child appeals to you, we can discuss other forms of punishments.
FWIW - I began driving at 16 and was immediately one of the worst imaginable offenders of speeding through neighborhoods. I thought neighborhoods streets made excellent road-racing courses and that people should just keep their damn kids out of the road.
All that changed the day I had to lock down my brakes and skidded to a stop just short of a child staring straight into my eyes over my hood. Yes, it was EXACTLY like those TV dramatizations only it was very, very real. Could you really walk away from running over a child and excuse yourself by saying "the damn kid shouldn't have been in the road!" ?
Al
I'd say, for the first offense you lose your license for 1 month; 2nd offense gets a 3-month suspension; 3rd offense and subsequent offenses, you lose your driving privileges for at least 1 year or you can opt to be buried in a fire ant hill.
Works for me, and sounds like a great equalizer.
I know it was silly, I'm just sayin' is all.
And, suspending a license on first offense of speeding or first offense of speeding through a residential neighborhood or any first offense?
Should my driving privileges be suspended for not having a light for my license plate? If not a fine for that, and a suspension seems a bit much for No Tag Light, what else is there? Heck, if I cops were uniformly asses, we could pull over a ton of people in Athens for failure to have a proper revalidation decal, or improperly displaying the decal by covering over the month with another decal. Does something such as that require a suspension, if we aren't collecting fines?
I'm not sure how serious to be when it comes to traffic enforcement these days. I don't mean to read as snarky here, I'm just not sure what people want anymore when it comes to traffic enforcement.
I know the studies: heavy traffic enforcement has a noticeable effect on total enforcement of law in an area, for a variety of reasons. But the cost of catching the person transporting digital scales and crack or the person with warrants for agg assault is stopping several hundred other drivers for a variety of offenses, not all of which are "safety" violations.
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