Thanks for playing
Somehow, the 'Kelly Girtz loves roundabout' discussion got hijacked by Jeff.
So I say ... easy sweetheart.
And as far as reading into one vote too much, I’m looking at patterns which include things like sewer lines, a land use policy which depends on the arbitrary use of variances and traffic congesting measures. Sure, take it apart and you can come up with a rational for anything.
OK, but let's do take it apart and realize that each decision was made independent of some overarching (and apparent nefarious) plan. That this 'arbitrary use of variances and traffic congesting measures' isn't arbitrary at all, but rather reactions to very specific issues which are brought forth. Some reactions were misguided, to be sure, and we've had too many reactions and not enough proactivity, I can concur.
But, it's possible that these were individual responses tailored to specific circumstances, is it not? That's appropriate, is it not? I mean, ultimately, that's what this argument is about, right? This particular decision was made because the majority of the commission said this idea doesn't work here. These people don't want it here.
You can work to connect dots all you want. I'm sure if you try, you could connect Kevin Bacon to this scenario too.
And if the idea of including all citizens of this town in opportunity and prosperity is, for you, just a witty cliché not grounded in reality, then you and I really see this town in different ways. But a few years from now, when seniors are still waiting for their tax relief while your mayor is distracted by partner benefits and buffer zones, this small voice about giving all people the benefits of Athens will grow into a roar.
Wow. Absolutely wow. We're back to senior property tax relief? Maybe you want to go help out Glenn Richardson. No matter ...
First off, inclusion is a great thing. More of it ... but, then again, how is it applicable to this scenario? The community came, they spoke, they engaged and, ultimately their views prevailed.
Under this Mayor and Commission, public comment has been longer, more open and survived misguided attempts to stifle it. There have been more citizen committees and more inter-agency cooperation then ever before. We have seen, thanks to its leadership along with several other agencies in this community, a massive public movement to combat poverty.
You can disagree with the political leanings of the commission, that's fine, but to suggest they're inclusive makes no sense.
The point about the cliche was to underline its ineffectiveness as a political tool in this community (which it was, spare me the highbrow approach about how you want to see everyone singing Kumbayah). It was its own attempt at excluding folks, and your comments later reveal that. It was an attempt to mobilize folks against the existing leadership, which is hardly an inclusive.
This is a smart and savvy community that, though being overwhelming Democratic, is full of engaged and knowledgeable citizens of all political stripes. Hiding behind some cheap one-liner may get you elected to, say, The White House these days, but it won't get you in City Hall in Athens-Clarke County.
Before you make that long anticipated run for a seat, why don’t you sit down and talk with the local representative of our labor department and tell him about your breadth of understanding of economic development. Why don’t you call up the head of the housing authority board and tell him your great plans for affordable housing. Why don’t you get together with someone who grew up poor and black and in Broad Acres and tell how you know exactly how it is and how you know how to solve it.
I didn't realize I had a long-anticipated run for a seat. I didn't even realize I had apparently declared for office. I'm flattered you think so highly of my chances, but I'll sit on the sidelines for now. I'll be sure to call you to help plan this apparent victory party you've got mapped out in your mind (Bruce Springsteen has a new album coming out, and I'll surely want that playing in the background).
But, yes, we're back to the same old argument. On one hand, you argue that because one hasn't experienced it firsthand, one can't offer solutions to the problem. And then, on the other hand, we're making the inclusive argument again by assuming that because some focus has been on other issues - some quite trivial, make no mistake - that we're ignorning others.
These are nothing more than false assumptions that. Pure and simple.
Why would I need to talk to simply the Department of Labor? Why wouldn't I also confer with the Chamber of Commerce? Or the Economic Development Foundation? Or the Downtown Business Authority? Or the owners of businesses both large and small in our community?
Why would I need to talk to only the head of the housing authority concerning affordable housing? Why can't I also chat with Habitat for Humanity? Or the East Athens Development Corporation? Or work with the variety of non-profits in our community? Or with builders and developers in this town? Or how about work with folks to develop a non-profit foundation to work to bring affordable housing to our community?
Why not find people of all racial, ethnic, religious and socioeconomic backgrounds and see what they think we should do to pull folks out of poverty? Why not support The Wife when she gets involved with a mentoring program for at-risk teen girls? Why not work with the Clarke County School District to find ways? Why not think of ways to promote financial literacy for poor citizens in this community?
Well, gosh. I've already done that.
An inclusive approach? Hardly.
So I say ... easy sweetheart.
And as far as reading into one vote too much, I’m looking at patterns which include things like sewer lines, a land use policy which depends on the arbitrary use of variances and traffic congesting measures. Sure, take it apart and you can come up with a rational for anything.
OK, but let's do take it apart and realize that each decision was made independent of some overarching (and apparent nefarious) plan. That this 'arbitrary use of variances and traffic congesting measures' isn't arbitrary at all, but rather reactions to very specific issues which are brought forth. Some reactions were misguided, to be sure, and we've had too many reactions and not enough proactivity, I can concur.
But, it's possible that these were individual responses tailored to specific circumstances, is it not? That's appropriate, is it not? I mean, ultimately, that's what this argument is about, right? This particular decision was made because the majority of the commission said this idea doesn't work here. These people don't want it here.
You can work to connect dots all you want. I'm sure if you try, you could connect Kevin Bacon to this scenario too.
And if the idea of including all citizens of this town in opportunity and prosperity is, for you, just a witty cliché not grounded in reality, then you and I really see this town in different ways. But a few years from now, when seniors are still waiting for their tax relief while your mayor is distracted by partner benefits and buffer zones, this small voice about giving all people the benefits of Athens will grow into a roar.
Wow. Absolutely wow. We're back to senior property tax relief? Maybe you want to go help out Glenn Richardson. No matter ...
First off, inclusion is a great thing. More of it ... but, then again, how is it applicable to this scenario? The community came, they spoke, they engaged and, ultimately their views prevailed.
Under this Mayor and Commission, public comment has been longer, more open and survived misguided attempts to stifle it. There have been more citizen committees and more inter-agency cooperation then ever before. We have seen, thanks to its leadership along with several other agencies in this community, a massive public movement to combat poverty.
You can disagree with the political leanings of the commission, that's fine, but to suggest they're inclusive makes no sense.
The point about the cliche was to underline its ineffectiveness as a political tool in this community (which it was, spare me the highbrow approach about how you want to see everyone singing Kumbayah). It was its own attempt at excluding folks, and your comments later reveal that. It was an attempt to mobilize folks against the existing leadership, which is hardly an inclusive.
This is a smart and savvy community that, though being overwhelming Democratic, is full of engaged and knowledgeable citizens of all political stripes. Hiding behind some cheap one-liner may get you elected to, say, The White House these days, but it won't get you in City Hall in Athens-Clarke County.
Before you make that long anticipated run for a seat, why don’t you sit down and talk with the local representative of our labor department and tell him about your breadth of understanding of economic development. Why don’t you call up the head of the housing authority board and tell him your great plans for affordable housing. Why don’t you get together with someone who grew up poor and black and in Broad Acres and tell how you know exactly how it is and how you know how to solve it.
I didn't realize I had a long-anticipated run for a seat. I didn't even realize I had apparently declared for office. I'm flattered you think so highly of my chances, but I'll sit on the sidelines for now. I'll be sure to call you to help plan this apparent victory party you've got mapped out in your mind (Bruce Springsteen has a new album coming out, and I'll surely want that playing in the background).
But, yes, we're back to the same old argument. On one hand, you argue that because one hasn't experienced it firsthand, one can't offer solutions to the problem. And then, on the other hand, we're making the inclusive argument again by assuming that because some focus has been on other issues - some quite trivial, make no mistake - that we're ignorning others.
These are nothing more than false assumptions that. Pure and simple.
Why would I need to talk to simply the Department of Labor? Why wouldn't I also confer with the Chamber of Commerce? Or the Economic Development Foundation? Or the Downtown Business Authority? Or the owners of businesses both large and small in our community?
Why would I need to talk to only the head of the housing authority concerning affordable housing? Why can't I also chat with Habitat for Humanity? Or the East Athens Development Corporation? Or work with the variety of non-profits in our community? Or with builders and developers in this town? Or how about work with folks to develop a non-profit foundation to work to bring affordable housing to our community?
Why not find people of all racial, ethnic, religious and socioeconomic backgrounds and see what they think we should do to pull folks out of poverty? Why not support The Wife when she gets involved with a mentoring program for at-risk teen girls? Why not work with the Clarke County School District to find ways? Why not think of ways to promote financial literacy for poor citizens in this community?
Well, gosh. I've already done that.
An inclusive approach? Hardly.
posted by Jmac at 6:21 AM
31 Comments:
I understand that you're wanting to suggest that the Commissioners can vote certain ways for particular instances, but it seems to me that Jeff is not alone in seeing that particular and specific votes are part of a larger general strategy to slow down, curb, or—in some of the more harsh critiques—eliminate development. Why would someone prefer a sewage line under pressure as opposed to a gravity line, for example? Who benefits more from such a decision?
Even so, any general or overarching plan has to reveal itself in specific and contingent instances within history. Look at the Bible, as one classic example. A person doesn't have to be a conspiracy advocate to see this. It's the inductive inferential move in the other direction that is more difficult, and I think both of you know this: y'all disagree on just how complete or total the plan is.
Either way, I would like to think that the Commissioners are not haphazardly planning the future, voting on each vote as entirely insulated from other considerations or votes or policies, but do have some idea of where each fits into their preferred interpretations of what is best for the community. We're not mayflies; we're all going to be around here for a while.
And, I think you mean to be saying 'insular' or 'exclusive', rather than 'inclusive'. I agree with you that the city-county government seems to attempt a more inclusive style of governance, but our two Js of Garland and Snowden repeatedly demonstrate otherwise: one more on behalf of the forgotten outliers and the other on behalf of the excluded within. The question, I think, for both is: is this just for show, for conscience, or is it authentic?
I do think that Jeff does you disservice to challenge your compassion-cred, but I think that's done more from familiarity than from spite. Only to the person who truly cares for the victims of oppression can such a criticism sting, and only against them will it work.
Jmac,
I don't for a second doubt your compassion or care for this community. But I am very nervous of what I see as a trend that is gaining momentum. I see a trend and think it is a problem. You don't. We'll just have to disagree.
As far as your comments about clichés and such, you have to appreciate our differing perspective. When I worked the campaign in the Iron Triangle, magnolia street and other traditionally poor areas, the idea of finally being included in the future of this community is not some obscure idea to those citizens. I'm sure such an idea seems simple from behind a Sierra Nevada at 8es, but to belittle what is reality for an actual group of Athens citizens is insulting.
I hope you do run for office and I hope you'll heed my recommendations that you sit down with the head of the labor department, housing authority board and a poor kid who grew up in Broad acres. The reason is because they are the same person and when he ran for office you said he was unqualified to help solve this towns most pressing issues. I hope he makes a better effort to hear you out than you did him.
This brings up one of those issues: Senior tax relief. As in building in traditional poor black neighborhoods is increasing assessments, seniors on fixed incomes are being forced out of their homes. The school board has long ago passed the resolution to allow the commission to vote and enact this tax relief. The mayor has said she would rather have broader tax relief but, to date, has continued to do nothing.
Why in the world would you get miffed over me bringing up senor tax relief that should have been enacted years ago? It is a real issue that I care about and it goes to the heart of my point of inclusion in the plans this government has for Athens. Why would you try to smoke screen the mandate to help poor, elderly citizens with the Glenn tax?
The issues that affect the poor are real to me. Getting the poor better jobs through thoughtful economic development is my top issue and I'm not going to sit silent on it.
Until the M and C show that they are committed to bringing the right types of jobs to our impoverished citizens I will criticize every drawn out debate over the design of buildings, the tree canopy and historic preservation.
Charlie is a dear friend of mine and when I hear the suggestion that he is dumb, illiterate, a secret republican, Uncle Tom, or not completely in touch with the issue of poverty and the best approaches to solving it, I get really pissed.
You and I will not agree on everything but I think you’d be a great leader in whatever you run for. But come election time, I’ll be loud over the issues of poverty, inclusion and economic development. I will use every resource to make poverty, inclusion and economic development a central issue. And every commission meeting that meanders over pettiness while ignoring economic development and the jobs Athens needs just adds to the arsenal.
Why not try a little test run here. What are your suggestions for the resolution (or, at least alleviation) of poverty? How do jobs play in your ideas? Do you have suggestions for economic development that still preserves this community spirit? Please speak up.
The voters are listening.
I can't figure out whether Snowden is being smart or petty here.
My initial thought was that Snowden should give it up. You lost, move on. That's not said in a spirit of gloating, but rather in the spirit of that "inclusion" on which he harps.
But maybe he's being smart and setting Charlie up for a run in 2010. Is Charlie the only candidate who can stand up to the evil Heidicrats? Stay tuned!
Except, as Columbo would say, just one more thing. Why is it so, so bad to criticize Charlie yet perfectly ok to attack the M&C?
To rehash the past just a little bit, here's the main difference between the Heidi and Charlie campaigns last year.
Heidi ran on inclusion. How well she's done with that is, as Snowden points out, open to debate.
But Charlie's race was predicated from the outset on an "us vs. them" mentality - a mentality that is still alive and well in Snowden's remarks here. It was class warfare of the basest kind.
Now it may seem kind of silly to stick up for the Cobbham/Boulevard/Normaltown crowd. After all, they are the masters of the Athens universe, and I'm not being sarcastic. But I don't think you can preach "inclusion" and then go after one segment of the populace just because you don't like them.
Well, clearly you can, but isn't it kind of hypocritical?
Charlie's a good guy, he's not stupid, he's not a sellout, and he's not an Uncle Tom. Every time I saw him on the campaign trail, he was warm and genuine. And, for the most part, he ran a good campaign that, in the end, came up short.
An aside. Every "Heidicrat" I know has a lot of respect for Charlie. He's for real. Why do a lot of the Charlie supporters I know have such a foaming hatred for Heidi, Kelly, et al?
Jeff I do appreciate your candor and your discussion here. We do disagree, and that's fair enough.
Whether or not I'll be a candidate for something down the road, who knows, but if I do opt to go that route, I would arguably seek the input from a variety of sources.
This brings up one of those issues: Senior tax relief. As in building in traditional poor black neighborhoods is increasing assessments, seniors on fixed incomes are being forced out of their homes. The school board has long ago passed the resolution to allow the commission to vote and enact this tax relief. The mayor has said she would rather have broader tax relief but, to date, has continued to do nothing.
The mayor does want broader tax relief, but you also have to understand the hand you've been dealt. That is, you can't complain about wanting the expansion of services such as sewer or spending additional money on economic development, but then turn around and want to start doling out tax relief. In order to provide fair and meaningful tax relief, one has to offset the reduction in revenue by finding additional income to provide said services.
Should we work to enact tax relief for our community's poor? Absolutely. But we should also work to empower them in the best way possible, and that means finding the best ways that will do the most good.
For what it's worth, I've long been an advocate of freezing property taxes in gentrified districts.
Charlie is a dear friend of mine and when I hear the suggestion that he is dumb, illiterate, a secret republican, Uncle Tom, or not completely in touch with the issue of poverty and the best approaches to solving it, I get really pissed.
OK, fair enough, but it's also important to note that I have never made those allegations (in fact, during the campaign I went out of my way to say he wasn't any of those things). From what I can gather, Charlie Maddox is a good man who has served this community quite well throughout his life. We need more people like him.
However, I do think he failed to articulate some substantive policy proposals during his campaign, as well as struggled to show a solid comprehension of local issues and local government. That, I think, is a fair criticism.
Nor did I not 'hear' Maddox. I listened to his platform, studied his answers to a variety of surveys and observed him in the debates. Each time, I felt he wasn't who I would back for mayor.
Likewise, while you have every right to defend someone you consider a friend, can you not then also understand a defense of the existing Mayor and Commission, of whom many I consider to be friends of mine?
Well, clearly you can, but isn't it kind of hypocritical?
Not necessarily. A traditional liberal position holds that the poor, being numerically more than the rich, are disproportionately maltreated by state policies. Coming to their defense, when they have been defenseless, is not hypocrisy but to seek for a more equitable distribution of justice. A traditional leftist position holds similarly that the poor stand in the place of all those who have been harmed through direct state action or inaction, and so taking on the state from their vantage point is to recognize the ways in which the state disenfranchises or subjugates each and all of us. A traditional paleoconservative position holds that individual associations based upon provincial and cultural ties are necessary for any continued growth and survival in a society to where failure to respect and appreciate these associations results in the dissolution and abyssal descent of society into fratricide and isolation. Or, you know, there is the contemporary neoconservative position that holds that democracy and freedom are so supremely valuable for every cultural group to the extent that any group who rejects both is simply not worth adopting into freedom and democracy, and such disapproving group, regardless of their otherwise sovereign intentions, is summarily an enemy of the state that seeks to bring freedom and democracy to them.
Different ways to look at it. I can see your point, anonymous, that it is suspect to say you're for everyone being included in the process, but then go about defining the wrench in the works as one significant part of the community. Still, it doesn't seem all that hypocritical, when many political positions people adopt is precisely premised on identifying who went wrong where.
So, perhaps the better part of honesty in politics is to just do away with the appeal to inclusion altogether.
Anon, I think you should appreciate that the Them in your "us vs. them" breakdown is the small groups who apparently have open access to the mayor who appeases their desires.
The “us” is everyone else. It's people without city water. It's people who getting taxed out of their homes. It's people who can't find decent jobs.
So they didn't vote and your buddy made it back in. Even George Bush got reelected, should everyone take your advice and get over it?
My position goes beyond a candidate. We need change in the way we attract jobs and those jobs need to be part of our answer to poverty. Should I just get over that? Hardly.
And jmac, The Mayor's rational for not bringing the floating homestead exemption for a vote is not that it would drain the community coffers as you suggest. It was because she said it was not comprehensive enough. Her exact words is that it would only benefit a small group of people. She said it right before she proposed partner benefits for city employees, another program that she claimed would only help a small group of people.
I guess it only helps to be a small group of people that Heidi likes. Congratulations on being part of them.
Of course the Commission is knowingly engaged in a growth-limiting strategy on a number of fronts. Otherwise, the various policies it has enacted over the past several years regarding land use, zoning, public utilities, transportation infrastructure, etc., make no sense whatsoever.
I have been consistent in my criticisms of those policies for many years - in dozens of letters-to-the editor, in a year and a half’s worth of Athens Weekly News opinion columns, and in two campaigns for the District 1 seat on the Athens-Clarke County Commission.
I assure you that they were entirely authentic; had they been otherwise, I daresay that I could have increased my electoral prospects by simply telling the blue voters, particularly in precincts 1C and 1D, what they wanted to hear.
Nor am I not alone in my criticisms. Last year, I articulated as specific a platform as you are likely ever to hear from a candidate for local office – one that included several specific criticisms of the Unified Government’s conduct. I did not get the endorsements of either the Banner-Herald or Flagpole. I got the lowest possible score from Grow Green. I got hammered for being (gasp!) a Republican. And I still got 45% of the vote; not enough to win, of course, but more than enough to demonstrate that there are plenty of folks who are none too pleased with the direction local government is heading. And those are the people that the Unified Government conspicuously ignores when formulating policy.
Regarding property tax relief, the (very) limited extensions of basic services into the formerly unincorporated areas of the county do not currently rely on property taxes, nor would they in the future. Sewer line extensions are being paid for by the Public Utilities Department fund, through revenue generated by existing water service and sewer service revenue (the Public Utilities Department turns a profit, thus it has an accumulating fund). Projected water line extensions will be paid for by SPLOST, just as were Fire Stations 8 and 9 were, though it took 17 years to do so.
... The Mayor's rational for not bringing the floating homestead exemption for a vote is not that it would drain the community coffers as you suggest. It was because she said it was not comprehensive enough. Her exact words is that it would only benefit a small group of people. She said it right before she proposed partner benefits for city employees, another program that she claimed would only help a small group of people.
So comparisons of two unrelated items make for valid points? Let's consider this rationally ...
On one hand, we have in the works the call to develop a comprehensive tax relief policy which affects citizens across the board, including lower-income citizens most in need of assistance. This seems to make sense to me.
On the other hand, we have in the works a plan to extend benefits to everyone regardless of their living situation or sexual orientation, as long as they can meet the stated requirements. This makes sense to me.
Both appear to be quite inclusive policies actually.
And another thing about why this 'us vs. them' mentality you're pitching is, with all due respect, utter nonsense.
What is happening is a concrete, community-wide effort to alleviate poverty that incorporates elements from both public sector and private sector. Now, you may disagree with some of the proposals being pitched out there to address this issue, but that's another thing is it not?
It seems to me you can disagree with the politics and policies going on here, but to say that no effort is being taken to assist our lower-income citizens by the Mayor and Commission and that they're acting in an exclusive manner is completely off-base.
Quite the contrary actually.
"So they didn't vote and your buddy made it back in. Even George Bush got reelected, should everyone take your advice and get over it?"
Um, yeah. If you're still bitching about Florida and hanging chads or Ohio and Diebold, then yeah, please get over it and start looking ahead.
You can control the outcome of the next election, you can't do bupkus (barring lengthy court proceedings) about the last.
Which is why I'm disappointed to hear you, Snowden, still fighting the last election. I hope you're just positioning your guy for 2010.
Jeff,
I have heard (read) you repeatedly ask commissioners (perhaps just rhetorically) what they are doing to bring jobs to athens.
My question is, what do you think they should be doing?
I agree with you that we have a problem in that we are losing long term employment options in this community that are not being replaced, and that is going to be a fundamental challenge for ACC years to come.
But you can replace "Athens," with "Georgia" and the above statement is still just as true. There's an argument to be made that you can replace "Athens" with "USA" and it would STILL be true.
So what should the local government be doing to bring more jobs here? And I ask you becasue I know you will actually have detailed answers besides "Stop being anti-business."
wmo
I need to be brief. The self employed don't get this holiday off. You can always email me directly at jeff@sn-ta.com.
Here it goes.
The first step is to clearly define our desires and ground rules. We want industry that appreciates our strengths but respects our environment and culture. My suggestions are things like animal health industries, light manufacturing, media arts (like printing and publishing) and education (such as culinary, nursing and other professional skills schools). My list is not exclusive nor exhaustive and I'm sure many of you have far better suggestions so spit them out.
2) We need to pursue these industries directly. This mean visiting individual companies, actively marketing our benefits and putting together our own packages to close the deal. At current we rely on the state for lead generation. If you want to bring your company to Athens we don't even have a brochure to send you. In short, we don’t have a plan.
3) We need to officially bury the hatchet between partner entities. Surrounding counties, their chambers of commerce as well as our own, regional development organizations, UGA and utilities all have a vested interest in successful economic development. We should stop electing leaders who use the Chamber as some sort of specter which is bullshit. Cooperation is long over due. The Chamber took out their garbage, if the M and C cannot cooperate on economic development, the voters should take out some garbage as well.
With defined goals, strong partnerships and actual action we can recruit the types of business that all Athenians can live with.
I never mentioned the county as not being business friendly. I simply said we need action. I don't think Athens is necessarily unfriendly to business. I think Athens leadership is unfamiliar with the type of strategic focus that is required for potent marketing. I think the EDF is tragically under funded with barely enough funds to pay it's staff. I think the "us vs. them" mentality with development organizations has made us our own worse enemy when it comes to taken our bite out of the American dream.
None of this shit is new. I wrote in Charlie's campaign literature and it clearly talks about animal health and media arts as a form of economic development. Despite what a few in blogsphere think, these points where all clearly made during the election. They were just ignored in favor of discussing TDRs and bike lanes which to some are the only issues.
So I've made a few points about the actions I think our M and C should take concerning economic development- but why are you asking me? Ask your mayor what real steps she is taking and what anticipated results she'll sign her name to. Ask your commissioner.
"Positioning your guy for 2010"?
How do you know it won't be a she.
I'm not just for a person, I'm for a belief that more should be done to help the poor get the jobs they need.
And now that I have a better idea of the tactics of various unemployed cowboys its going to get really interesting.
James, and I suppose this is also for Jeff, I see that my prose was poorly written. I should have written my earlier comment this way:
"The question, I think, both are asking the Mayor and Commission is: is this [the claim to inclusiveness] just for show, for conscience, or is it authentic?"
I don't doubt either y'all's authenticity in wanting our government to be more inclusive. I apologize for being a poor writer.
So help me get back on base, John.
Tell me the "concrete, community-wide efforts to alleviate poverty"
"being taken to assist our lower-income citizens by the Mayor and Commission".
And not. Tell the action the M and C have taken that you are refering to. I pointed out the floating homestead as something they could do. What have they actually done?
You realize what OneAthens is, right?
I mean, does every single effort to address poverty in this community have to originate solely from one entity of the public sector? Can it not be a collaboration?
You argued cooperation is the best way to go, so clearly you'll concede that this multi-pronged effort with numerous partners - which featured the mayor as one of its originators - is a multi-faceted approach to addressing poverty.
"does every single effort to address poverty in this community have to originate solely from one entity of the public sector?
No. I think the mentor program brought to you in part by the evil Chamber of Commerce pretty much answers that. You have heard of the mentor program?
And I'm only asking for one. What concrete action has the M and C made that has had an actual effect on resolving (not bandaging or discussing) poverty?
As to you discussion over homestead exemption and partner benefits, look at the result.
In one case a small group was helped (the married employees already got benefits). In the other case the seniors where told they could not recieve tax relief because it did not help enough people.
Here's the thing. Nothing has happened. The M and C have taken no action to help anyone concering this exemption.
Please. Explain that.
I think an important distinction to make is that the M and C can legislate things to treat poverty. They have control of The economic development budget. They can lift taxes off seniors.
Yes I think, at the very least, burying the hatchet with neighboring entities is important. But I would not wait on the Oconee County Chamber of Commerce before I start pursuing economic development for Athens. In the same vein, the M and C should not ignore the tangible thing it can do to recruit better jobs by pointing to One Athens.
Please remember, this is not the first poverty study and community organization to try to tackle the issue. Another group did it years ago.
And the results.....well...
You've set up a monumental straw man. Unless I answer 'they reduced property taxes for seniors' or 'increased the EDF budget' I can't win (though, for the record, they have increased the EDF budget).
You asked 'what have they done?' and I say 'well, actually, they've coordinated an unprecedented gathering of public and private sector players from government, education, non-profits and local business to develop a comprehensive anti-poverty strategy that actually lists economic development at the top of the list' and you say ... 'big deal, where are my property tax breaks for senior citizens.'
Talk about catering governing to a particular group. Who's being exclusive now?
Jeff,
First, let me say I was not accusing you of beating the "anti-business" drum that many others do, I know better. (maybe I was just fishing for a dumb response from chuckie...)
I generally agree with your #1, but I question just how much of it is the responsibility of local government vs. some other local entity. Certainly government can participate in the conversation...
As for #2, well, if you're referring to the CVB logo hoopla from May and all that that implies about their decision making process... well, your right. This community is not marketing itself well to those outside of this area.
But is it a direct responsibility of the M&C to make marketing decisions? They don't even have the power to fire the poeple who make those decisions, so how is the lack of vision on that front their fault?
Using the CVB logo as an example, how is it that any elected official could have influenced that decision (which was a really bad one)?
As for #3, well of course we should all get along. The problem is that the local government is only one of the MANY partners that needs to bury the hatchet. I think the new direction that the chamber has taken is a good thing, but that doesn't solve ten years of mistrust overnight. On either side.
Nevertheless, it's nice to have a thoughtful response to my question.
wmo
jmac,
So that's the concrete action you're referring to, right?
Making more than token efforts for economic development and senior tax relief are just examples.
I was simply asking for the concerte example you are talking about that are helping reduce the causes of poverty. I brought up those example becasue they are things the M and C could do right now.
Your suggestions don't have to be mine. I just hope they are actually concrete which I've yet to hear.
I think an important distinction to make is that the M and C can legislate things to treat poverty. They have control of The economic development budget. They can lift taxes off seniors.
Yes I think, at the very least, burying the hatchet with neighboring entities is important. But I would not wait on the Oconee County Chamber of Commerce before I start pursuing economic development for Athens. In the same vein, the M and C should not ignore the tangible thing it can do to recruit better jobs by pointing to One Athens.
Please remember, this is not the first poverty study and community organization to try to tackle the issue. Another group did it years ago.
And the results.....well...
Because the government sets a lot of the rules and guidelines I think it is more than important that they participate in forming a vision for economic development.
The M and C hold tremendous power over The Classic Center Authority which administers the CVB. From releasing funds to the appointment of boards, the mayor has enough power that when she tells Chuck Jones to jump he says “How far up Paul Cramer’s ass”.
The CVB is not responsible for marketing and economic development. The EDF is. A while it’s funding has increased (cookie to Jmac) it is still not enough. May I should say it in all caps. IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO COME HERE, WE DON’T HAVE A BROCHURE WE COULD SEND THEM. That’s Athens still economic development. Unleashed, aint it.
You’re right that everybody needs to simmer down and behave with one another. We need to identify synergies that benefit Athens and learn how to use those synergies. Just a suggestion, since the region benefits from economic development, why don’t we get the region to foot the bill market this place worth a shit.
Jmac, I still love you. If it weren’t for these pesky voter i.d laws, I’d vote for you right now. We may disagree but there is nothing you could say that would make me like you less than Elton.
sorry about the duplicated text. Don't feel like you need to respond twice.
Sorry, I did indeed misunderestimate your question.
Jeff, forgive me, but I just don't accept that coordinating PPA and OneAthens isn't 'concrete' ... particularly when the recommendations coming out of that group are far-reaching and offer more depth to combat poverty than anything this community has done.
And we're already seeing them be implemented (take the Clarke County School District's decision to develop a career academy). But to suggest that this is something worth panning because it wasn't something that was fired off willy-nilly doesn't wash with me.
Likewise, you want more money for EDF. That's great, but where are we getting it from? You're advocating for tax relief, and there's nothing wrong with that, but then arguing we should pony up more money for EDF (of course one could argue the other entities which support EDF could contribute more too, but no one seems to mention that).
This money has to come from somewhere, lest we make James Garland's head explode.
But to be clear ...
The Mayor and Commission should give more to EDF ... which you concede they have.
The Mayor and Commission, as well as other partners, should work to begin burying the hatchet ... which they are.
The Mayor and Commission should work with its regional and local partners to develop a comprehensive anti-poverty plan, one which includes a plan for regional economic development ... which they are.
And our discussion has boiled down to a lack of a brochure? This is the magic bullet?
Thanks for your support, though I can't condone you faking your I.D. to vote for me. Of course, seeing how I haven't said if I'm running for anything yet, let's put the 'Go Jmac Go' talk on hold.
And Jeff, forgive me, as I'm not intending to sound so snarky here ... but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around some of these arguments and some of your rationales.
You leave out one very important part which is not to say I agree with your other parts.
The first part of my response to economic development question is having a clear vision and plan.
There is not one. That's the magic bullet.
Sure EDF got more money. I still don't think they have enough and my brochure comment was merely to demonstrate that either finances or a plan is still lacking. Getting money from partners? Why not.
I don't buy the argument that tax relief from seniors means we cannot adequately fund job creation. I mean....we bought a skate park. I don't see empty coffers, I see bad prioritizing.
So now the partners are working together? High Five. That does not mean we have a plan. Working together should be more than trying to agreeing on who will put the fires out on the Orkin tract. What will NE Georgia be in twenty years? Nobody seems interested in answering that question.
Maybe you will. By that time you'll be mayor. And not just any mayor. Our Mayor.
Don't worry about being snarky. I mean....look at me.
I do appreciate the discussion. If it's not obvious, I do care about this stuff and a little emotion and a lot of misspelled words is sure to result.
And our discussion has boiled down to a lack of a brochure? This is the magic bullet?
Well, to be fair to Jeff, I don't think that he sees that as a magic bullet. It's his line of work, and it seems like such an easy and obvious first step... So it becomes a symbol of what, to him, is wrong with our current leadership. i.e. " we all keep (kept) talking about the orkin tract and the loss of novartis, but we still don't have a promotional piece directed at the types of industry we want to bring here"
It's not a magic bullet. Brochures don't bring major industry (or minor) anymore than pushcards win elections. Jeff should know, Charlie had some of the best looking campaign literature I've seen. (and I mean that in a sincerly complimentary, not snarky, way)
But I think his larger point is an interesting one. We seem to be reactionary in bringing new business here. Did you read/see Empire Falls? It seems a little like that (the point he's making, that is). Every few years someone sniffs around the Orkin tract and we get all excited, but what do we do when no one is sniffing?
It's a fair question.
wmo
Thanks to Jmac for not wanting my cranium to detonate - not everyone would agree with you on that point.
It is true that we get excited about prospects that don't pan out with the Orkin tract every couple of years. The more important point, however, concerns not the industries on which we (presumedly) narrowly miss out. The more important point concerns the businesses and industries that do not seriously consider Athens in the first place. These potential employers are not looking for a reason to come to Athens, they are instead looking for a reason to cross our community off of their long lists of potential sites for expansion or relocation. I fear that we give them far too many reasons to do so. In that regard, some of Jeff's points are entirely appropriate.
And finally, I do believe that the Mayor and Commission are sincere in their efforts to make our community better; I just frequently disagree with the approach they take to most issues (and insofar as "inclusion" is concerned, find that they pay far more attention some voices than to others).
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