Couple of things
- Ah yes, here is the Rep. Bob Smith we know and love ... all too eager to tell other folks how to manage their affairs. I wonder if he's bothered to express the same concern with his own local government.
- Related to that, just a few additional water notes and the latest installment of The Safe As Houses Water Challenge.
- This is a rather interesting story and one that I'll probably need to go into more depth on later, but I like the idea of developing a mixed-used development that could serve as a functional parking deck. Though I differ with the mayor and some of the commissioners on their views on the Gameday Condos or how pedestrian-friendly the Hilton Garden Inn is, those are minor disagreements that aren't totally relevant to the actual issue. I don't know where I come down on sticking residentials on top of the deck, but then again I don't exactly know where else you'd put them ... particularly if you want to develop significant retail space on the ground floor to attract something like a grocery store (woo-hoo!). All in all, a good discussion and a good idea.
- Again, in something else I hope to get into more later on, a well-said editorial from the Athens Banner-Herald that shows just how ridiculous the claims are from House Medical Education Committee ... which is conveniently overflowing with Augusta-area representatives.
- I'll be the first to admit that I've waned as of late on Gov. Sonny Perdue's handling of the drought, but it's just kinda dumb to criticize him for praying for rain.
- Related to that, just a few additional water notes and the latest installment of The Safe As Houses Water Challenge.
- This is a rather interesting story and one that I'll probably need to go into more depth on later, but I like the idea of developing a mixed-used development that could serve as a functional parking deck. Though I differ with the mayor and some of the commissioners on their views on the Gameday Condos or how pedestrian-friendly the Hilton Garden Inn is, those are minor disagreements that aren't totally relevant to the actual issue. I don't know where I come down on sticking residentials on top of the deck, but then again I don't exactly know where else you'd put them ... particularly if you want to develop significant retail space on the ground floor to attract something like a grocery store (woo-hoo!). All in all, a good discussion and a good idea.
- Again, in something else I hope to get into more later on, a well-said editorial from the Athens Banner-Herald that shows just how ridiculous the claims are from House Medical Education Committee ... which is conveniently overflowing with Augusta-area representatives.
- I'll be the first to admit that I've waned as of late on Gov. Sonny Perdue's handling of the drought, but it's just kinda dumb to criticize him for praying for rain.
posted by Jmac at 7:29 AM
24 Comments:
Oh, bull. It's not criticizing him for praying for rain in private. It's criticizing him for making a media event out of it when it's not actually useful. God's omnsicient, right? If you believe so and you believe he's up there, he probably knows we ain't got rain. So what is the damn point other than to seem as though you're doing something when you're clearly not?
Oh, criticizing the faithful is always stylish.
God knows we need a lot of things. It does not mean we don't have to ask once in a while.
"not actually useful".Uh-oh, Maybe God's just cooking up a way to send water to everyone but you!
Thanks, Hillary.
See? It's not dumb to criticize him for praying for rain. As a matter of fact, it's hip. It shows how urbane and sophisticated and--dare I say it--almost European you are. Downright continental.
As opposed to that rube Perdue and the peckerwoods who embarrass the rest of us by believing in God and doing so in public.
Thank God--oops!--I mean, thank goodness we're much more enlightened here in Tenure Town.
I’m going to defend Bob - not that he really needs it, but I like him. His House District 113 includes all or portions of Athens-Clarke County precincts 1A, 1C, 1D, 6A, and 6C. Given that the green industry is a major factor in Bob’s district, especially in eastern Clarke County, it is well within his purview to comment on local government actions that affect the residents and businesses therein.
Fair enough James, though if that really is the case I would assume he'd start listening more closely to the legislative requests made by the commission regardless of their ideological makeup.
Local control and all that.
God's omnsicient, right? If you believe so and you believe he's up there, he probably knows we ain't got rain.
Well, this could open a can of worms, couldn't it? I mean, even the Good Lord is all-wise and all-powerful, that doesn't mean He doesn't instruct us to go to Him in prayer with our thoughts, concerns, fears, doubts, joys, praises, etc. and etc.
I just don't get the big deal. Listen, again, plenty can be criticized about Perdue's handling of the ongoing water situation ... the fact that he prayed about it isn't one of them.
I don't believe Hillary's point was "criticizing the faithful," or was that Purdue's actions, "embarrass the rest of us by believing in God and doing so in public."
I think it's more a matter of pointing out that Perdue is grandstanding instead of getting down to work, which is typical of Governor Sonny.
Praying for rain? damn good idea. Encouraging others to pray for rain? also a good idea. And making a media event out of it - is that offensive? Nope.
It's simply another instance of typically useless Purdue grandstanding (see the "don't talk bad about my football team" flap).
Look, it's ultimately a waste of breath to criticize Purdue in this instance. But is it anti-God or anti-Christrian to simply point out that Sonny's doing his typical mugging for the camera Sonny? Come on.
Darren
With this prayer meeting, Perdue has put himself on par with such luminaries as Kathleen Blanco.
As such, it's fully correct to criticize said governor for being, at best, an impotent placeholder.
Darren is correct, and I'll add that such grandstanding is downright insulting after the years of inaction. Not unexpected, mind you, just insulting.
not to mention that rain was already in the forecast before Sonny scheduled his prayer service...maybe Sonny thought God could use the PR.
OK, but aren't we talking about a couple of different things here?
The letter-writer, it must be noted, didn't make the distinction that a lot of y'all are making in his criticism. He said, and I paraphrase here, 'quit praying and do something.' I agree with the latter assertion, but not the first one.
Sonny made a media circus out of it. OK, fair enough. But politicians do that with just about everything, don't they?
Listen, I ain't out to defend the man's policy but it's just ridiculous to me to criticize him for praying ... even if the cameras were rolling for it.
(And, even though I don't agree with many of his efforts in this area, it's misguided to suggest that because he held a prayer service he's not doing anything else from a legislative front).
The other thing worth noting is that Hillary made an assumption regarding God's ability to know our wishes and drew a conclusion that we shouldn't pray as a result. While I don't think that's necessarily a criticism to the extent others felt it was, it was something that merited a response that focused on faith and not faith in public.
You see, the thing about prayer is that, eventually, it might actually come true. So, when it rains, some will say that Sonny's actions encouraged the good lord to make it rain. Of course, those of us who believe in the natural rather than the supernatural will say that, actually, it was weather patterns that did it. And, if it doesn't rain, then there's the easy out which is that we're still being tested/ god is angered at us because we have turned our backs on him/ etc. See, it's an easy option to pray for rain.
What Hillary is criticizing --and I agree w/ her completely-- is that this is a completely useless response and obviates the gubner from having to come up w/ any real solution (like reigning in rampant sprawl, forcing developers and the rest of us to get serious about conservation, etc). No, definitely more politically acceptable to just ask us to pray for rain. Sort of appropriate from a do good gubner.
Of course, those of us who believe in the natural rather than the supernatural will say that, actually, it was weather patterns that did it. And, if it doesn't rain, then there's the easy out which is that we're still being tested/ god is angered at us because we have turned our backs on him/ etc. See, it's an easy option to pray for rain.
To offer a defense for those of us who believe in the power of prayer, this isn't how we view it at all (or, to be clear, how most people view it). While you may have your Pat Robertsons who blame disasters on the faults and errors of the people (i.e. his reaffirmation of Jerry Falwell believing 9/11 was our fault for turning our back on God), I would argue that isn't exactly how it works.
I would never not argue that natural weather patterns aren't responsible for rainfall (or, as of now, our lack of it). But, from a Christian - or religious - point of view, the believer recognizes that it was God who developed and crafted these weather patterns which occur. Now I'm not arguing that Prayerfest '07 resulted in the rainfall, far from it actually, but I'm also not saying that it's foolish to pray for rain.
I pray for the health and safety of my family ... all the while, doing the appropriate things to provide for the health and safety of my family.
"Now I'm not arguing that Prayerfest '07 resulted in the rainfall, far from it actually, but I'm also not saying that it's foolish to pray for rain."
I guess I am, since I think it is completely pointless, given that I don't believe in god. I guess we'll have to disagree :-)
My bigger point, though, is the politics of Sonny's call. I find his call not only ineffectual but deeply offensive for all sorts of reasons, but not least because it basically says "well w/ god's help we'll get through it and if we don't then it wasn't meant to be". This is a public policy cop out. Hey, Sonny --there are actually, you know, public policy initiatives you could be getting your hands dirty with that will be more effective but might actually require, you know, some leadership and telling some of your buddy developers "no". But that's probably too much to ask for.
Just one moment - I've been terribly busy lately and haven't got much sleep, so I will be the first to admit that I get a little confused...
Is this a HEIDI DAVISON supporter, criticizing SOMEONE ELSE for "tell[ing] other folks how to manage their affairs?"
In other news, I have been told that a pot and a kettle recently got into a heated argument, wherein the pot used a racial epithet against the kettle. More news to come.
Well, if God is responsible for the weather, then I guess He's been kind of an A-hole for the past month or two.
I didn't mind Sonny's praying (even if it's pointless), but I did become irritated when he took some of the credit for that storm last night.
"'tell[ing] other folks how to manage their affairs?'"
Chuck, where are you quoting from? I can't find that language in these comments, or in the original letter.
Darren
I think everyone who's paraphrased me nicely did a good job. Those who think I hate people who love Jesus weren't quite so on (although I probably do hate _some_ people who love Jesus). Doesn't Perdue have, you know, a job to be doing? I understand that part of that job is huffing and puffing and making a show for the cameras, but he can't even get elected again! So there's really not much point. Basically, I think if he wants to pray for rain in his spare time, he's welcome to do so, of course. But is there anything in the Bible about praying in groups being more useful? Or attracting more attention from up above? (If you find it, I promise to give on this point.)
And I'm not even getting into separation of church and state. I don't like my elected officials praying so publically at _all_, no matter how sincere they are. On the other hand, I know that's an argument I will not win with the faithful, so feel free to pretend I didn't even raise it.
"But is there anything in the Bible about praying in groups being more useful?"
Yes.
I believe the quote is something to the effect of "Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there."
He might not be elected again, but that doesn't exclude any public speaking, NGO or PAC lobbying, fundraising, or other assorted post-government positions out there that might benefit from his display of affected faith. I think every elected official also works for life after elections, even if they intend to leave politics altogether (for example, doing good for the sake of conscience afterwards...).
Also, while there are no explicit passages that come to mind where a prayer is 'amplified' or 'more probable to be answered' by being made through the community, it is no secret of the biblical accounts that community prayer, with community worship, is one of the firm supports of the church itself. It's an act of solidarity, of bearing one another's burdens, in the sense that good friends get together to share stories of the workday over beer. The large number of times that the phrase itself 'one another' is used indicates that the church is about being apart of something greater than one's self, something that is not just a sum of its parts but also a plurality as one.
Although, some people tend to take the passage from Matthew 18 where Jesus says, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there in their midst," as indication of the effectiveness of all prayer when shared by several people, taking "anything that they may ask" as bluntly as possible. To me, the context clearly indicates this is not so much intercessory or petitionary prayer (although can be, sure) as it is assurance in the discipline of a wayward brother or sister. I don't think the principle of "coming together to pray for one another" isn't there in that passage, just that it's not a good passage for that principle.
However, there are plenty of warnings in the Gospels and occasions for concern in the epistles when it comes to sanctimony. Not just the warnings for the people who blow their own horns on street corners, not just the wealthy who openly drop money into the till, but also the superapostles who have no fear in displaying their righteousness, the circumcisers who cut off other people's skins 'cause that's the right thing to do.
So, to the anonymous who said with some amount of sarcasm that Hillary's being hip, I want to point out that it was not so much the secular Romans or the bookish Greeks who criticized the farmboy beliefs of the ostentatious Jews, but rather God himself. The Gospel is only powerful because it is carried forth by fragile vessels, in meekness, so that it is not of men or of renown that it changes lives, but of God alone.
I just read that letter to the editor.
"The drought was predictable from the climate changes provoked by our unwise use of resources."
Sheesh.
Darren, Chuck left the Sonny's praying talk and opted for my criticism of Rep. Smith ... and I think his analogy is misguided.
It's one thing to say the local government operated in a heavy-handed fashion, but there's a different form of recourse. You can support candidates who share different views or you can run yourself.
It's another altogether for an elected state representative, as Smith is, to opt to selectively choose which requested agendas from local communities he would like to fight for. In essence, he's deliberately ignoring the requests of the community.
I've been pretty consistent all along about this local control thing. For instance, I rarely speak out on issues in Oconee County or Jackson County, or at least in a pointed manner, because I don't live there. The citizens of those communities should be able to determine what agenda they wish to pursue, even if I may disagree with it on some ideological level.
Again, I keep coming back to the hotel-motel tax which needs state approval for us to hold a local referendum. Smith opposes any tax increase, which, despite my disagreements, is a perfectly reasonable position to hold.
My problem is that it's something we should determine as a community (and, truth be told, I'd probably not support an increase in the hotel-motel tax ... but still, shouldn't I decide that and not a state representative who disagrees based on ideology?).
Jmac: but do you really believe that the Republicans believe in local control/ decision-making? Sheesh, he said flippantly. Letting people decide locally on with whom they will sleep (gay marriage), with what they will carry in their wombs, and a whole bunch of things... Surely not! The Republican motto is really "local control...when it fits in w/ our ideological agenda"
Thank you, Charles. I really do appreciate a thoughtful pointer couched in historical knowledge to the correct scriptural passages. Because I'm hip! And hipsters love academic knowledge!
The point is, it is ironic to criticize someone else for "telling others how to manage their affairs" and then support Heidi Davison, the QUEEN of telling other people how to manage their affairs (park their cars, control their dogs, use their land, etc)
I don't believe in any of this "local control" crap especially when it comes from an Athens resident. When an Athens person screeches about "local control" what they really mean is Heidi Davison control. And as she has demonstrated at Commission meetings she can't even control her smart little mouth, so why should she be in control of anything else?
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