Debate recap
Wow.
Plenty of good things to discuss from last night's Athens-Clarke County Commission debate ...
- First off, Chuck Jones dropped out of the race? Dude, we don't agree, but you've been a pretty loyal commenter. No love ...
- Anyway, that means it's just Alvin Sheats (who was AWOL last night), Ed Vaughan and Kelly Girtz for the District Nine seat. Vaughan seemed to be a bit all over the place with his answers, and I'm more than a tad confused about his proposal for a 'Blue Collar Fund' ... no matter. Girtz seemed very impressive. He's sharp and seems pretty pragmatic about a lot of things.
- By the way, I like Girtz's proposal of employing county workers to work on affordable housing repairs ... that's New Deal-esqe right there.
- In District One, another loyal Safe As Houses commenter in James Garland squared off with Doug Lowry. I've met Lowry on a handful of occasions, and he seems like a nice enough fella ... but I am completely baffled after reading some of his comments. First off, the Democratic candidate in the race claimed he was the conservative, which the actual conservative Garland probably was amused by.
Then there was this gem ...
When asked about the conflict between downtown's daytime retailers and nighttime restaurants and bars, Lowry said he sides with the retailers, who often say bar-goers drive away their business by leaving trash and odors behind in the morning. Bars also contribute to widespread alcohol abuse among students, he said.
"I would really like to see no more bars downtown," he said. "I have no use for them."
Well, I was teetering toward the edge anyway, but now you lost me Doug Lowry. As I've argued before, I don't think the perception matches with the reality when it comes to widespread alcohol abuse on campus, and eliminating bars in downtown won't do anything if it does exist ... instead moving it from downtown Athens into the dorms and apartments of these students (i.e. away from where we have to as a community, you know, actually deal with it).
Now, again, while I like Garland on a personal level for his openness for civil discourse and general friendliness all the way around, I'd have a hard time supporting his candidacy seeing how I am so not a libertarian. So this one just got interesting.
Plenty of good things to discuss from last night's Athens-Clarke County Commission debate ...
- First off, Chuck Jones dropped out of the race? Dude, we don't agree, but you've been a pretty loyal commenter. No love ...
- Anyway, that means it's just Alvin Sheats (who was AWOL last night), Ed Vaughan and Kelly Girtz for the District Nine seat. Vaughan seemed to be a bit all over the place with his answers, and I'm more than a tad confused about his proposal for a 'Blue Collar Fund' ... no matter. Girtz seemed very impressive. He's sharp and seems pretty pragmatic about a lot of things.
- By the way, I like Girtz's proposal of employing county workers to work on affordable housing repairs ... that's New Deal-esqe right there.
- In District One, another loyal Safe As Houses commenter in James Garland squared off with Doug Lowry. I've met Lowry on a handful of occasions, and he seems like a nice enough fella ... but I am completely baffled after reading some of his comments. First off, the Democratic candidate in the race claimed he was the conservative, which the actual conservative Garland probably was amused by.
Then there was this gem ...
When asked about the conflict between downtown's daytime retailers and nighttime restaurants and bars, Lowry said he sides with the retailers, who often say bar-goers drive away their business by leaving trash and odors behind in the morning. Bars also contribute to widespread alcohol abuse among students, he said.
"I would really like to see no more bars downtown," he said. "I have no use for them."
Well, I was teetering toward the edge anyway, but now you lost me Doug Lowry. As I've argued before, I don't think the perception matches with the reality when it comes to widespread alcohol abuse on campus, and eliminating bars in downtown won't do anything if it does exist ... instead moving it from downtown Athens into the dorms and apartments of these students (i.e. away from where we have to as a community, you know, actually deal with it).
Now, again, while I like Garland on a personal level for his openness for civil discourse and general friendliness all the way around, I'd have a hard time supporting his candidacy seeing how I am so not a libertarian. So this one just got interesting.
posted by Jmac at 7:34 AM
9 Comments:
I can remember a time when there weren't more than three bars downtown. Alcohol and drug abuse was just as rampant then as it is now, but it wasn't contained in an area where it can be easily supervised and controlled.
Go ahead, get rid of the bars...
give me a break. i don't know why Doug Lowry is coming off like this, i can't believe he came out and said that.
here's the thing. he really is NOT a jerk, he just played one at this forum.
he has worked hard to get to know his district, the issues, the way govn't works and now he just needs to grow into being a candidate.
he's kind of a nerd, but he is basically a populist. that isn't very progressive, that's why the green groups in town recruited Jim Ponsoldt to run against him.
i hope you won't judge him too harshly, i'd be willing to bet this was his first forum being on the spot. i hope he was just nervous.
i really kind of like James Garland, how can you not? i just stand 180 degrees away from him on EVERYTHING important.
aquariusrizing
I have heard that the Green people among us recruited Ponsoldt, but it isn't so. Jim had been considering several offices this year (including commission district 9, the mayor's race, the state house and House District 10) and he thought the district 1 race needed a more progressive presence. The CleanBikeGreen people were a little surprised by his run, in fact.
I assure you that not everyone feels the same as jmac and aquariusrizing regarding me personally. You should see some of the comments that I get through my campaign web site contact form.
On the other hand, I get some good policy-oriented questions as well (not that everyone agrees my answers). I guess it just goes with the territory and I'm sure that the other candidates have to put up with the same thing.
This is one of the posts on JG's Website..."You should see some of the comments that I get through my campaign web site contact form":
Check in with campus psychological services and the Gilbert Health Center, the CDC has regional stats too, bet you'd get some good hard STATISTICS, that you could s t r e t c h into a correlation in human terms about the detriment of the number of liquor licenses downtown. Booze... its a scurge, recongnized in recovery and at funerals and supported by the revenue it draws in the turnover in businesses in the CBD of Athens. Free Markets and Dead People, can't have one without the other...Iraq?.... Checked out the costs? for beer wine and liquor?, local and state fees and licensure for bars? Sure ACC wants those dollars coming in...and the Liability insurance?...give me a break: quantify what you qualify! I know ninth graders that have better critical thinking skills for evidence in arguments that all these posers posting here put together....Ever been to Athens Biscayne soliciting votes James? You do the homework, you draw the lines, you connect the dots...also
I find it amazing that JG almost sounds like JC...WWJGD? He's got all the answers to all your problems. In his eyes you are the problem...he's got the solution...a recipe for dissolution of community standards in the guise of property owner rights: did you hear his comments about the rural areas of
Athens not having neighborhoods?, composed of farmland....God what a hayseed...and blatantly not recognising the self determination of the rural communities in Athens. Got fingers James, check the pulse....Voter Beware of this Jesse Helms retro meets Lindsey Graham in a Ralph Reed Suit and haircut.
Bar the door Sally!!!!!!!!He's really cute like most after your 3rd or 5th PBR.
I bartended downtown in the late 80's and for 9 years. I served drunks and folks with 5 year lay overs at the bus station and went to a lot of their funerals. Doug's not far off base in my book. It's hard to improve on the human mind, especially with booze.
Of course some of the posers here can't lose what they don't have...of course they have Free Market lingo, Jesus on Sunday and Conservative Values....winkin atcha JG...but now to the nut cuttin....You made a great disclosure in making the public claim that there is a lack of neighborhoods in rural Clarke County = opportunity for supporting residential development of land resource and greenbelt where people don't exist. It's gonna hit you at the ballot box cuz we're chattin you up in the worst way in our internal listservz...
Read between the lines...W E E X I S T AND W E H A V E A C O M M U N I T Y with a lot of voting power! ! !
Just because we didn't return your requesting demands for our private lists of our neighborhood membership's private information doesn't mean we don't exist, hell, Jimmy, do like we did:
compile your own list from the phone book. Better yet, buy the f'in' list...Do your damn homework! and quit tryin to surf on the work of other people...Jesse Helms included, he's a really bad hero for you to pick and model your political campaign and career and in the unpublished words of Jesse Helm," No one owes James Garland nothing."
Cheers!
PS...a guilded turd is none the less a turd.
my name is nobody...
Wow.
Too. Many. Sentence. Fragments.
Based on their blog postings, both AthPo and SAH were represented at the Chamber’s forum the other evening. For what it is worth, neither apparently found anything particularly controversial about my response to the questions concerning neighborhoods or bars, nor did the reporters from the Banner-Herald or WGAU in their subsequent news coverage.
I did not specifically mean the comment below when I referred to some of the ones submitted through my campaign web site. However, since the post above cries out for a response, the following exchange of email messages that took place on 28 September and is reproduced here verbatim, with only personal information (for privacy) and technical email routing stuff (for formatting) removed.
My purpose is twofold: as a means of self-defense and to illustrate my point. Note that at no time did I respond to obviously baiting comments in a confrontational or disrespectful manner and that I dealt with the successive arguments presented in a reasonable way. Readers are invited to draw their own conclusions.
Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by X on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 at 17:55:29
X to James Garland
Question: can you believe that mr. garland thinks that there are not too many neighborhoods in district 1....we count 28 subdivision and one-street communities on barnett shoals road from whitehall road to the golf course/country club and river....mr. garland might need to go from door to door in the district before he says that in public any more...the first public innformation session about the traffic study will be at the barnett shoals school on monday, cctober 2nd at the barnett shoals elementary school….
James Garland to X
My point was that, as it is usually employed, the term "neighborhood" is problematic when applied to large swaths of District 1. As you indicated, and as I am well aware, the subdivisions and "one-street" communities that do exist in District 1 are concentrated in precincts 1C and 1D, along and south of Old Lexington Road. Even so, I stand by my comments, your critique notwithstanding.
I have contacted every neighborhood group and/or homeowners association in District 1 for which I could find any kind of contact information, and have done so repeatedly. The county's Planning and Zoning Department has contact information for only five such groups. The Federation of Neighborhoods has contact information for two groups
(one of which is also on the P&Z list). I found contact information for another three groups on my own. I'm sure that others exist, but they have made themselves very hard to locate.
X to James Garland
our neighborhood and contacts are not hard to locate--bar h estates....and we have formed a coalition of neighborhoods along the barnett shoals road corridor from whitehall road to the golf course...28 communities...more than 200 folks attended our first meeting last winter...information about that is not difficult to find if you have your ear to the ground.....hhmmmmmmmmm
i thought i might vote for you but in view of your comments at the meeting the other night and your remarks in the email suggest that might not be a good idea.... i'm afraid i find that your posture may not be compatible with our interests after all....we may have a little problem deciding between doug garland and james lowry.....thanks much...
James Garland to X
I sent several messages, by regular mail and email, to the person indicated by the Planning Department to be the contact for both the Bar-H Association and the Barnett Shoals Coalition. These included specific requests for me to appear before, or setting up a meeting for me to introduce myself to, the membership of the Association (and by
extension that of the Coalition). I received no response whatsoever on that count. In fact, the only response I did receive from the contact person was a specific request not to be contacted again.
I appreciate your concerns about neighborhood protection, but confess to being somewhat puzzled by your comments. While not meaning to be argumentative, I am not sure how an acknowledgement that "neighborhood" is a difficult term to apply to significant portions of District 1 constitutes incompatibility with neighborhood interests
where they do exist.
James Garland to X
Upon further reflection, it occurs to me that perhaps we are just not understanding what the other one is trying to say. If you have a specific question or concern, I will do my best to address it.
X to James Garland
got both notes...in hugh rush since i'm on the acc democratic committee and we have a meeting tonioght after which is first meeting about the forthcoming revisions of the land use plan.....the neighborhood lists are not for political use or purposes....so i'm certain that's why you got the reaction you did....still weighing you possible role on the
commission in spite of my democrat alignment...but basically the republican agenda, unfortunately, stinks...that's not personally directed....please understand....but richard nixon WAS a crook amd so was agnew...they both tried to circumvent the constitution....ralph reed was and may still be the most dangerous man in the united
states....recently private rights have been violated, etc....don't tell me the gas mess is not for the profit of a limited few and exploitation of the public...the division of athens clarke county is disguisting....but i think, on the other hand, you might serve a real
purpose in the county....but your expressions as a possilbe rep for district 1 are not comprehensive enough in my opinion....and, subsequently, your vote would be a wasted vote on the commission...i am very concerned about the future changes for eastside politics....thanks...
If someone doesn’t like my positions or proposals, fair enough - support another candidate. But this kind of gratuitous invective goes well beyond the bounds of civil discourse (and I honestly don’t believe that I did anything to incur such unadulterated wrath).
Be that as it may. In retrospect, perhaps a better response would have been for me to ignore the post by “anonymous” altogether. As it moved down the list of blog entries, it probably would have been forgotten soon enough. Instead, I responded in the manner that struck me as the most appropriate at the time.
I’ve learned my lesson and will not respond to any further postings on the matter, nor will I make the mistake of specifically responding to such postings in the future.
gosh James, I think that's a sound decision on your part.
If you were to just go and attend those meetings and introduce yourself instead of asking for special treatment as an honored guest you'd be in the door.
aquariusrizing
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