Sad, but not unexpected
This is definitely unsettling news, but not terribly surprising for those who are already working in areas dealing with these issues. The now-famous poverty rate number of 28.6 percent that helped prompt the formation of Partners for a Prosperous Athens was, in fact, rather old data (stemming from the 2000 U.S. Census). The new number of 31.1 percent is what I felt was more accurate, particularly in the wake of rather stagnant wages and some job losses in the manufacturing sector.
Increasing the wages, truthfully, is something that only be addressed by working to diversify our local economy and also by the University of Georgia working to raise wages, thus making the area's largest employer more competitive with other businesses in the community.
Seeing this problem as a regional one, thus working toward the development of a truly regional economy (that I'd like to see build around alternative energy, distribution centers and the biosciences) - in addition to increasing educational opportunities - is what will ultimately enable us to whittle away at this high rate.
Increasing the wages, truthfully, is something that only be addressed by working to diversify our local economy and also by the University of Georgia working to raise wages, thus making the area's largest employer more competitive with other businesses in the community.
Seeing this problem as a regional one, thus working toward the development of a truly regional economy (that I'd like to see build around alternative energy, distribution centers and the biosciences) - in addition to increasing educational opportunities - is what will ultimately enable us to whittle away at this high rate.
posted by Jmac at 9:19 AM
27 Comments:
So Heidi Davison became Mayoress, and nothing improved.
So you gave her complete control of the government, crowned her Empress, and nothing improved.
In fact things got worse.
But I have absolutely no doubt that next election you will be supporting her little cabal yet again like a good boy.
What has this Empress and Corruption to show for itself? It's told people what to do with their dogs, and let people sell beer around kids. Whoop. Dee. Doo.
That's the easy answer, and of course it's completely wrong. Just as it's wrong to fault poverty rates in the U.S. solely on the Bush Administration or credit the economic growth of the 1990s to the Clinton Administration (or the Republican Congress).
Things like poverty and economic growth are tricky things, and while policies and leaders can help out, they're only one factor worth considering (ask Herbert Hoover).
Truth be told, the reason the poverty rate is up is because of stagnant wages and a not-so-diverse economy (that was hit hard by manufacturing losses between 2000 and 2006 there can't be pinned on either Doc Eldrige or Heidi Davison).
I know comprehensive understanding of the issues escapes you at times, but there you go.
I know comprehensive understanding of the issues escapes you at times, but there you go.
"At times"
?!?
Ok, Time for a comprehensive understanding of the issues.
So, what exactly is ACC doing to further the diversification of our economy with the inclusion of living wage jobs that include benefits?
And I mean real action. Not forming a commitee.
And here:
"The newspaper chastises the Athens-Clarke County Commission for taking a proactive approach to smart economic development..."
What is the smart economic development you are referring to? Are you suggesting that more downtown retail space is the type of initiatives we need to make meaningful strides against poverty?
So, what exactly is ACC doing to further the diversification of our economy with the inclusion of living wage jobs that include benefits?
As much fun as it would be to do this dance again, I keep pointing to the real work being done to develop a regional economy through partnerships with neighboring counties. Work's going on. Just because I don't type it out now doesn't mean this community is sitting silently.
What is the smart economic development you are referring to? Are you suggesting that more downtown retail space is the type of initiatives we need to make meaningful strides against poverty?
I think a mixed-use development downtown is a rather smart economic development that would have a positive impact. Would it alleviate poverty? Well, it's hard to argue that it wouldn't for some, but then again ... does every economic development aspect have to take massive strides to alleviate poverty?
Can we not, say, pursue a mixed-use development downtown and do things like explore the biosciences or clean industries or work to locate distribution centers here?
Please point to the real work being done to develop a regional economy through partnerships with neighboring counties. Seriously, what real work?
"Can we not, say, pursue a mixed-use development downtown and do things like explore the biosciences or clean industries or work to locate distribution centers here?"
Sure we can. But we are pursuing a mixed-use development downtown and not doing things like exploring the biosciences or clean industries or work to locate distribution centers here. We have no strategy. We have no action. We only react to what drifts this way.
If a company want to relocate to Athens who do they call? The city, EDF, Industrial Development Authority, Georgia Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism, The Chamber of Commerce. Honestly, No one really knows and there is no real plan to fix this situation.
You are not talking about economic development. You're talking about using SPLOST to subsidize a spec building. Citizens were not told they would be underwriting condos when they voted for a 350 space parking garage.
Well, it's hard to argue that it wouldn't for some.
Really, then it should be easy to argue how it will help. In real terms, explain how this will bring the type of jobs that the poor need.
We're talking street level retail and condos. Let's hear of a simular development in downtown that is alleviating poverty with goods jobs that offer benefits to the underemployed.
If a company want to relocate to Athens who do they call? The city, EDF, Industrial Development Authority, Georgia Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism, The Chamber of Commerce. Honestly, No one really knows and there is no real plan to fix this situation.
We could make a brochure, right?
(I kid ... I kid ... sarcasm alert).
No I don't think it's that easy but you raise a good point that, as a community, we can't even do that to help in economic development.
Plus, Our leaders love micromanaging so much that I doubt they could ever make progress. When my company donated the PPA logo, it was hung up for weeks by an elected official who could agree how many trees should be in the logo.
Really, then it should be easy to argue how it will help. In real terms, explain how this will bring the type of jobs that the poor need.
We're talking street level retail and condos. Let's hear of a simular development in downtown that is alleviating poverty with goods jobs that offer benefits to the underemployed.
I'll just address this specific one for the moment, but you concede it's hard to argue that these jobs, which are more low-paying with fewer benefits than others, wouldn't bring about some benefit for those working to get out of poverty.
You concede because this is true. For many individuals who have completed their education or have few skills, gaining employment in a retail or commercial industry provides an essential paycheck, even if it is smaller than other jobs, and also provides the ability to learn essential skills to become a better employee with better options down the road.
I use IHN of Athens because that's where I have the most experience, but I believe many of the anti-poverty non-profits in town would say the same thing, and that's employment in this type of industry provides an immediate and necessary boost to many folks working to get out of poverty. It helps them pay the bills, it helps them gain experience and it helps them find ways to get additional education.
It's a step in the process, and by no means is it the final one. Increasing the number of steps in the process is a good thing in my mind (and we need to increase more steps such as continuing to work to diversify our economy to have a variety of job opportunities available and expanding educational opportunities for low-income workers).
Regarding downtown ... I'm puzzled because you've long couched your support for these great jobs in the sense that they are manufacturing, and I don't see what type of manufacturing job can go downtown (truth be told, outside of commercial, retail or office, I don't know what can go downtown). This appears to be a sound use of a space downtown that has the real potential to a positive thing for our downtown economy.
And, though you'll dismiss this, don't so readily forget about how having a downtown that features, say, a grocery store or other big-box type retailer makes Athens-Clarke County look like a good place to locate a firm which would offer the types of jobs you desire.
Jmac- It is not about expense. My firm and others around town have offered to donate our services.
There is no plan and no one knows what to do with the services that could be available free.
Leaders are distracted with dogs on chains and their parking garage condo legacy. I think a better legacy would be developing an implementing a decent plan to attract the jobs we want and need.
But by a means, make a moderately funny joke. I think this cities approach to economic development is a moderately funny joke as well.
Here’s another one. We could build condos and retail shops (coffee shops and bookstores, of course) in downtown and that would create the type of living wage jobs with benefits that help bring families out of poverty.
Well why don't we build more fast food restaurants. Those are good first steps that teach teamwork and customer service skills. A good stepping stone, right?
The mayor and commission are not pursuing downtown development as part of a larger economic development plan. They are focusing on controlling development while doing little to attract the type of industry that could make an actual impact on poverty.
Again, it is a matter of focus and resources. I too have plenty of experience with poor people seeking jobs and find the idea that we will simply employ them (with crappy pay and no benefits) at an art supply store or organic smoothie store to be laughable.
This is, yet again, the commission pursuing its goal of controlling development at the expense of too many other important issues.
Um, pursuing a mixed-use development downtown allows those without a car to obtain their groceries more easily (due to its proximity to the main transit center), saving them time, which can then be used toward more productive activities that could potentially alleviate poverty. Whatcha got, Snowden?
Yawn. Whatever. You don't like the result, so you blame the local government. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Things that have contributed to our poverty rate, and its increase:
1. Athens's schools, which provide a first-rate education to anyone willing to get it, but have not yet figured out how to handle the issues related to educating a majority-poor population.
2. Athens's industry, which was already tiered and heavily dependent on manufacturing. Manufacturing is failing across the nation, or simply leaving.
3. The various national issues pertaining to housing, economic policy, the economic downturn, etc.
You're not wrong to pin some of the blame on the city government. But should you be pinning it on the M&C? Unlikely. For starters, the M&C don't control much -- they simply are the most visible representatives. School policy, for example, they have next to nothing to do with. They also have nothing to do with their work force, which at many levels is a morass of patronage appointments made a decade or more ago.
And the issue with retail or service isn't that it exists -- it's that it exists in the absence of other, better compensated, benefits-eligible work. So it's a false dichotomy to proclaim that retail jobs aren't going to solve our issues -- they aren't meant to, or to exist in a vacuum.
You're talking about using SPLOST to subsidize a spec building. Citizens were not told they would be underwriting condos when they voted for a 350 space parking garage.
It seems to me that this is a big deal. We voted for another parking deck and nothing more. That being said, though, an easy solution is a public-private partnership where the ACC govt. teams up with a private developer who takes responsibility for the commercial/residential portion of the development and the ACC govt. is only responsible for building the parking deck. If they can't get a private developer to bite then it's a pretty strong signal that the project isn't viable
Excellent point Rich, and I believe that's much of the discussion going on right now (though I'll look into it as well).
That's the type of partnership we need, and it's what made the bus shelters work out so well (even if I dislike some of the actual designs).
Fine with me, kids.
Seriously, I'm tired of people assuming that a project is bad because it will be conducted in a speculative manner on government dollars -- it can be, but it doesn't have to be, and in fact it's more likely to be successful if it isn't.
Oh, and if there is a grocery, you can bet i'll be shopping there. I already do the majority of my shopping in a 5-mile radius from where I live (though I think I'm drawing the line at patronizing the North Avenue Piggly Wiggly) -- I spend most of my money at Bell's.
There is a big difference between those without a car and those who don't want to drive to get their groceries. And you are making a big assumption that the poor are concentrated in downtown. They are not. Take a drive down Kathwood or Jefferson River Road. Is that who is supposed to walk to the new grocery store?
Rich is right. If a private builder will back the plan then it is not an issue other than it’s another thing the M and C are doing instead of attacking better jobs (something they can do, Nicki). But if we are talking about the government in the speculative building business for retail, that is another issue altogether.
Nicki, I’m liking the snarky little lead ins. They are nearly creative. Keep it up.
And Hillary,
Skilz
There is a big difference between those without a car and those who don't want to drive to get their groceries. And you are making a big assumption that the poor are concentrated in downtown. They are not. Take a drive down Kathwood or Jefferson River Road. Is that who is supposed to walk to the new grocery store?
Fella, I didn't say "walk." Merely not having to take two buses, each of which only comes once an hour, would cut down on transit time to a grocery store dramatically. Most buses do go downtown. Therefore, most buses would go to this new grocery store. Also, I'm pretty sure there are still some poor people in the vicinity of downtown--they haven't all been gentrified out yet.
I will admit you have some mad dog photographing skillz.
Merely not having to take two buses, each of which only comes once an hour, would cut down on transit time to a grocery store dramatically.
Damn good point. Our bus system is great if you want to go home and downtown, considerably less so if you want to go to another point on the perimeter (you know, where all the grocery stores are located) and home. As for the poor, a good portion of them live in the public housing located close to the downton -- Broad Acres, Hill Street, Savannah Ave., Nellie B, Bethel Homes, etc. And what's with this notion that only the poor support an in-town grocery? A lot of the surrounding counties work downtown. and many of Athens's residents do, too. And there's Normaltown and Five Points. And dorm dwellers. Lots of people to support such a commercial endeavor.
Jeff, this debating business would be much better of you'd actually debate. But as it is I'll point out these two small items: The poor you mention have a grocery store closer to them -- Bell's. Second, "attacking jobs" is hyperbole.
(Blake, as an aside, I neither disliked the Gap for being downtown nor blame it for leaving.)
My wife and I would move downtown if there were a significant and non-hipsterish grocery downtown. I liked biking to work, but hated driving out Baxter or Milledge or Prince to get some cheap, nitrate-filled hotdogs. I am amazed at the number of people who ride the bus to go to Walmart or somesuch to get groceries or other goods. It's a significant investment of time to ride buses that only come once an hour. I can't read on the bus, and I definitely can't write or much else but look at the window. I do like that I can see people have friendships with other busmates and meet people that way. I suppose it's all a matter of what people want as tradeoffs.
This comment isn't really a contribution to the discussion. Sorry.
Two great points. Many routes between grocery stores and poor neighborhoods (No Nicki, you just see the poor downtown. They are actually everywhere) are already existing so the real pitch here is that rather than take two buses to the store, one could take one bus and then carry groceries from the Classic Center to Lumpkin street.
Actually the point is really this from Nicki:
"And what's with this notion that only the poor support an in-town grocery?"
This issue is really about giving more resources to people who live in in-town neighborhoods. Please understand me; I think in-town is an important part of Athens that should be considered carefully. But I don't think it should be the prime focus. I think action against poverty should be.
It is fitting for this M and C to consider a mixed use development their legacy. Not efforts against poverty or economic development but regulating the style and type of development.
From last minute moratoriums against Greek organizations to downtown historic preservation to the height of buildings in normal town, our mayor and commissioner are obsessed with development in a few neighborhoods.
Nicki. Garnett Ridge is close to Bells? Garnett Ridge is three miles down a long, dangerous road with no sidewalks which is, of course, because it’s not a "neighborhood".
No Nicki, you just see the poor downtown. They are actually everywhere
Don't presume to lecture me on the poor. I know where they are. (I know what a tamale costs at La Jalisco, too.) And stop making up straw men -- no doubt there are arguments you can make that are supported by actual facts.
This issue is really about giving more resources to people who live in in-town neighborhoods.
How so? The resource is parking, which we voted to put downtown. It becomes a better resource, with more meaning than merely providing parking, with this enhancement. And the enhancements are privately funded -- so nothing is necessarily "given" other than facilitation.
But I don't think it should be the prime focus. I think action against poverty should be.
I don't understand how that relates. a parking deck alleviates poverty how? by providing parking which supports downtown businesses, therefore employing people? In that case the enhanced deck does that better, because it creates jobs as well as parking. It also serves the poor of Athens, and the citizens of Athens in general, while helping people reduce their trips by car -- which is an enhancement to Athens.
Nicki. Garnett Ridge is close to Bells? Garnett Ridge is three miles down a long, dangerous road with no sidewalks which is, of course, because it’s not a "neighborhood"
I suppose you think that the role of the M&C is to ensure that whatever example you can come up with should be served by an adjacent grocery and fantastic sidewalks? How close is close enough, anyway? Jefferson River Road is ruralish, and remote -- it doesn't support a grocery store larger than La Jalisco. But it's less than 4 miles from Bell's, and that's the closest comprehensive grocery to it. But due to the low density of the areas you mention, they're unlikely to get anything closer -- hence the failure of Oak Grove to attract a tenant. Which gets us back to a crucial point -- there won't be a grocery anywhere unless the population can support it.
You seem to think that placing a mixed-use project like this in downtown a) is an either/or and b) is a luxury for lazy townies. It's not. One of the major barriers to making Athens pedestrian-friendly, both for those who would like not to drive and for those who have no choice in the matter, is access to a comprehensive store. It's also a matter of nutritional improvement for the poor, the provision of jobs, the creation of a better parking deck, and the creation of a live space (as opposed to a dead space that has the potential to be dangerous).
I ask again: Is this community better off since Heidi Davison became Mayoress? Is it better off since she became Empress?
And I'm not talking about the rich folks in Five Points who have the "quality of life" they want, or the animal rights loon-pots who don't want dogs on tethers. I'm talking about the POOR of the community.
Are they better off?
I think you’ve done an excellent job of making might point.
• “I know where they (The poor) are. (I know what a tamale costs at La Jalisco, too.)”
Look at you, friend of the poor. I bet you also roll your R’s so you don’t sound like such a gringo. If you think the poor are concentrated downtown, you don’t know where the poor are.
• a parking deck alleviates poverty how?
My question too. So tell me, exactly what type of businesses do you think will go in this new mixed use and how likely do you think it is that they employ Athens actual poor (people who are really poor and not trustfunders who are pretending to be poor while driving their Mom’s old Volvo)
• I suppose you think that the role of the M&C is to ensure that whatever example you can come up with should be served by an adjacent grocery and fantastic sidewalks?
Yes. I do. I think a walkable community is something all Athenians should enjoy. Why should it just be made available to rich white people and lazy hippies. And why are bike lanes not a priority in West Athens. People drive from the rest of Athens to ride their bikes on the Westside so it would make since to put bike lanes here as well. That is, of course, if you define cyclist as people who ride bikes which is not the case. In Athens, cyclist means malnourished nerd sans helmet in women’s jeans with the cuffs rolled up.
• due to the low density of the areas you mention
Garnett Ridge has more density than most of Normal Town and the number of single housing residences on Jefferson Highway ( not to mention several of the other adjacent streets with plenty of housing as well) rivials most neighborhoods. It has plenty of density. It just doesn’t get attention because it is not full of lazy hippies on vintage bicycles.
• You seem to think that placing a mixed-use project like this in downtown is a luxury for lazy townies.
Uhhhhh- Yeah, I do. I lazy townies seem to be the priority for the M and C. Want to do something awesome for downtown? Put a park in it. Not a swingset in a catbox- a real park like WOW. Make downtown a place for all Athenians to enjoy rather than a personal playground for a bunch of worthless hippies.
• the creation of a better parking deck, and the creation of a live space (as opposed to a dead space that has the potential to be dangerous).
Dangerous? Really. Dangerous is not open space in downtown. Dangerous is the bridge over the train tracks on Tallahsee road (Walking community, huh).
If you think the poor are concentrated downtown, you don’t know where the poor are.
Hmmm. I said I didn't, and yet you tell me I do. Genius. Nice job, Criswell.
And I don't declare myself a friend of the poor -- I merely like their tamales, and like practicing my restaurant spanish. I do volunteer with the poor and live near them, but that's it.
I think you’ve done an excellent job of making might point.
What's a might point?
So tell me, exactly what type of businesses do you think will go in this new mixed use and how likely do you think it is that they employ Athens actual poor
Nope, there's no point in it. It's a grocery or a comprehensive store -- no doubt you can imagine what jobs they offer. And they usually offer benefit-eligible jobs, which is the primary advantage they have over mom & pop businesses.
I think a walkable community is something all Athenians should enjoy.
Ok, then. So the implications of that are that every road in Athens should have sidewalks, right? Good lighting, perhaps? And a grocery store how often? Be specific. And also, how does that related to a SPLOST project? Oh, right -- it doesn't. Because dumping a SPLOST project after the fact isn't going to create more money for those things -- it's only going to go back to other SPLOST projects.
Why should it just be made available to rich white people and lazy hippies.
personal playground for a bunch of worthless hippies
True color alert.
And why are bike lanes not a priority in West Athens.
You'll have to be more specific. I ride my bike in West Athens, so I have no idea what you're referring to.
It has plenty of density. It just doesn’t get attention because it is not full of lazy hippies on vintage bicycles.
Or smarmy faux-populists.
There's no point in screaming at people for pointing out the obvious. Which is that capitalist ventures don't ride where they're not economically sustainable.
Want to do something awesome for downtown? Put a park in it. Not a swingset in a catbox- a real park like WOW.
Total disagreement here. I don't think WOW is needed where it is. Furthermore, there are multiple publicly-accessible parks owned by private entities (generally churches) in downtown. Plus, green space is important, but not particularly endangered downtown --and hardly a substitute for jobs, healthcare, and nutrition. And finally, wouldn't that be giving the in-town neighborhoods more of those resources they seemingly suck from the poor outlying constituents?
Dangerous? Really. Dangerous is not open space in downtown.
Dangerous is a poorly-supervised empty structure. Which all parking decks are at certain hours. No doubt you've been here long enough to recall that there have been fires and muggings in the college ave. deck. The safety of a deck goes up with the number of hours that it's routinely used, and the number of people walking within it.
Dangerous is the bridge over the train tracks on Tallahsee road (Walking community, huh).
You can lecture me on the byways when you can properly identify them.
Post a Comment
<< Home