Junk it
While I'm not particularly crazy about the concept of amending our policies to help out folks who are brazenly defying existing policy, I do think Kathy Hoard's proposal isn't a bad one. The reality is that not everyone is going to make the effort to haul their trash to and from the curb and if you really want to address it, sometimes you have to meet people halfway. Particularly since fines won't achieve much in the sense that it harms the landlord more so than the renter.
And let me take this opportunity to once again advocate for opening up our in-town trash services to private competition. Not that I have anything against the work done by the folks working for Athens-Clarke County, but I've long believed it's more than frustrating to have large portions of the community afforded with the option to choose the trash provider they want while those inside Athens proper lack that opportunity.
And let me take this opportunity to once again advocate for opening up our in-town trash services to private competition. Not that I have anything against the work done by the folks working for Athens-Clarke County, but I've long believed it's more than frustrating to have large portions of the community afforded with the option to choose the trash provider they want while those inside Athens proper lack that opportunity.
posted by Jmac at 6:58 AM
16 Comments:
I hate garbage service in this town. If we are a Unified Governement, why can't I have Solid Waste pick up my trash just because I live outside of the old urban service district (which by the way is a fancy way of saying former City Limits of Athens)? My blood even boils more when I find out that people can elect to have their trash removed from thier backyard for an extra buck or two. I have been through four different companies in 10 years and have hated each one of them. Plus why is it acceptable to have five or six different companies come roaring through my neighborhood on a weekely basis just to pick up a dozen homes each? I am sure the in-town Commissioners would not stand for that on thier precious Five Points streets.
Come on, Commissioners. Allow Solid Waste to offer their services countywide already!
JMac:
Be careful what you ask for with allowing private companies to pick up trash within the Urban Service District (please don't refer to it as "in-town" we are a Unified Government afterall). As I said in my earlier post, the service of our local compaines such, you generally only have 1 service plan to choose from, and your neighborhood will quickly become filled with five or six fidderent companies traveling through it picking up trash from every fourth or fifth house.
paveplanet
FYI: I live over on the eastside and we have Johnson and Son. They come right up to the house and pick the trash up. And all for no extra charge!
Paveplanet's comments are why I can't support wide-spread privitization of most government services.
Competition in the free market is supposed to improve services and lower costs - in theory. In practice, what you mostly see is really crappy service and products and the whole industry slides down hill in a futile effort to be the cheapest. Bitching at the companies and taking your business to another company doesn't usually result in any improvement. Service levels, across all industries in the USA, has just nose-dived in this competitive battle to be cheaper than anybody else and the consumers are primarily to blame because we tend to shop exclusively or primarily on price for basic services.
Al
Wholly unrelated rejoinder:
Senator Nunn for Obama -
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/nunn_and_boren_back_obama.php
In Cedar Creek we have multiple services providing pickup on different days. The end result being garbage trucks running up and down our streets EVERY day. They spill nasty trash water, belch diesel fumes and jar us out of bed at 6am.
A few years ago we pushed the neighborhood to voluntarily consolidate the service to a "preferred" provider. Collective bargaining of 652 potential customers got us a decent deal, and at least half the homes in the neighborhood signed up.
Still, the other vendors have stayed by constantly undercutting each other. The "preferred" vendor has gotten lazy and complacent, sliding on many of the quality of service promises they made.
I would love to see the unification promise of "city" level service in the old county limits fulfilled. The noise, the pollution & the unsanitary practices are enough for me to (uncharacteristically) advocate for a govt. service over the free market. But that's me being selfish to an extent . . .
Stayed tuned. We are working on these issues - a hybrid approach that may very well provide the best of both worlds.
Yep. Seconding what paveplanet sez...public trash collection in Athens is way superior to private, even if I do feel a tad ganked with the price increases AND I live close enough to the inert landfill to deal with the trucks that use it.
Nicki, I don't know about "in every way." I'd rather have public trash collection for the entire county because it's annoying and weird not to, but I pay $10 a month for pickup of one largeish but not huge trashcan and as many recycling bins as I want. They've failed to pick up one time in nearly five years, and when I called, they did come get it. They don't do a messy job either. In many ways, while I'm not thrilled about having to find my own company, they actually do a better job than the ACC trash pickup did when I lived on Riverdale.
With something like trash service, seems like there are a lot of fixed costs. The truck has to still go down the street if there are three houses needing trash picked up or the whole street needs it. I can't imagine how sending five trucks down one road can be more efficient than sending one. Seems like whether it is private or public, it just needs to be one company, whether ACC does it or contracts out.
I still advocate personally hauling your own trash to the landfill. Again, I pay about five dollars every month and a half to take my own garbage to the landfill, and we weekly stop by the recycle bins with all of the things that can be recycled. Taking your own trash to the landfill is not as messy as one might think.
I'm also still going to suggest that much of the litter and waste that ends up on the sides of the roads is not due primarily to people tossing them out the car doors, but rather come from hauling trucks that inefficiently store the waste in transit. Like overstuffed ravioli, the waste is jammed in tight, the trucks move too fast to form a proper seal, and things occasionally burst out.
Well, heck. "Better" is relative. "Cheaper for more trash" is one measure, "comes to pick up my trash from the back yard" is another, and "works with recycling" is yet another. But another one is "provides service relatively efficiently in terms of impact on the area served," and in that way fewer = better. Says the person with the solid waste issue. It's most efficient to have fewer services, creating less impact on the 'hoods, if those services can be made more or less equal with everything else dollarwise.
We certainly agree there.
Al, it is ironic that your comment comes immediately after "anonymous", who points out that, surprise surprise, there IS a private option (in one part of town, for now) that offers superior service (they come into your yard to get the trash) at a more competitive price (no extra charge). It doesn't happen overnight, though. When someone discovers a cure for cancer, it won't instantly cost 5 dollars a scrip at Wal-Mart. (And I'm sure some "human rights" advocates will complain about that one when/if it happens, too) And of course when you say it's all gone "down hill," as though gov't does oh so much better, you make a funny.
Nicki also says public is oh so much better than private. But I was quite happy with the private service we used when we lived in Athens, and it was cheaper (to my understanding), significantly so, than the public service.
But, even if we grant that "service" has declined in recent times (painting with a wide brush or no...), perhaps this is simply because that's all people really want to pay for. See, you act like lower prices ("cheaper") are not a good thing in themselves; they must somehow be "justified" by ALSO providing better service. Of course, I would still contend that that often happens in the market (both lower prices and improved services), but when it doesn't it's not necessarily a sign of "market failure." It could simply be that the fancier "services" are overpriced and thus inefficient (i.e., not worth the money it costs to offer them).
I, personally, don't really care about whether a company comes to get my garbage out of my yard or not. I can push it to the trash just fine myself. And if a no frills company will do it way cheaper, then that's a GOOD deal in terms of what I am looking for. Am I somehow "wrong" for the things I'm looking for? Is everyone supposed to WANT their garbage picked up in their yard, even if it costs extra? And then Charles goes even further: he would prefer to just haul it himself and thus eliminate "service" altogether but accomplish the raw goal (garbage disposal) for a rock bottom price. Is he wrong? Better have the city come in and make everybody use the same company, or fit into some pre-ordained plan or range of plans? Why?
We used to have "full service" gas stations all over the place, too. But people decided--the market decided--that they would rather avoid the extra cost (tip) and do it themselves. But some might interpret this as the market screwing us all over by offering "worse service," I guess.
And you can always go to New Jersey (N.B.; my comments are based on a visit there in 1999), where stations are still required to provide full-service (I think the customers are required to use full-service, actually). This is a good deal if you really enjoy being a gas attendant, but a bum deal for all the people who are now forced by law to pay even more for gas than they otherwise would pay for it, for a "service" they don't want.
And there is a very clear parallel in that little story of government mandates for government services in general.
I was just in Joisey -- you are required to have full service, but it's actually not more expensive. I believe NJ is one of two states that still require full-service.
City trash is pretty cheap. I guess I'm a stupid consumer in that way, because I just don't worry about my costs as long as I consider them reasonable. I think my current charge is something like $14. Further, my 'hood used to have a lot of problems with trash collection because of our spatial relationship to the inert landfill -- I recall having similar problems when I lived outside the urban service district. So I don't consider the impact of multiple trucks daily and their fugitive garbage to be a small issue. (We had major issues with fugitive dirt, which have since been resolved.) There are ways to partially regulate that, as well, but it's still ideal as far as I'm concerned to have a single provider at a reasonable cost.
A phenomenon I've been meaning to bring up with you, xon, is this whole idea that competition provides lower prices. Sometimes it does, but sometimes the competition merely agrees on a level of profit and sustains that. Particularly when the market is captive.
"This is a good deal if you really enjoy being a gas attendant, but a bum deal for all the people who are now forced by law to pay even more for gas than they otherwise would pay for it, for a "service" they don't want."
except that gas in NJ is some of the cheapest in the US :-) BTW, when I lived in Joisey, I was also told that one other state had the same set up --I think it was OR, but can't swear to it; it was out west somewhere.
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