Um, perspective anyone?
See, I think this is insanely overdramatic. To equate the demolition of two run-down houses on property owned by Kappa Alpha to a 'betrayal of trust' is hyperbole at its finest.
Listen, I don't personally know Amy Kissane, but I've always respected her and the work her organization has done. Still, I fail to see how the actions taken by an organization dealing with its own property ultimately mean they don't wish to work with the surrounding neighborhood (or how it overwhelms charitable efforts by the students in the fraternity, including Hands On Athens).
Listen, I don't personally know Amy Kissane, but I've always respected her and the work her organization has done. Still, I fail to see how the actions taken by an organization dealing with its own property ultimately mean they don't wish to work with the surrounding neighborhood (or how it overwhelms charitable efforts by the students in the fraternity, including Hands On Athens).
posted by Jmac at 9:54 AM
24 Comments:
Yeah, here we disagree partially. Amy is being a drama queen. You, however, are downplaying the relationship that was being built, which is about 90% of the basis of the original fit of pique.
KA was engaged in a relationship with the neighborhood and with the ACHF. Which was probably a cynical PR move, but apparently the 'hood and ACHF thought otherwise or anyway were proceeding as if it were otherwise. They worked together on multiple issues of concern to ACHF/the 'hood. And then KA moved to demolish some of the properties that had been part of those issues without notice or dialogue, thereby precluding any opportunity to preserve them and cutting off that dialogue. Which was neither necessary nor in good faith -- but quite expedient.
Also, "run down" is a judgement that ACHF would argue -- to them, and to the 'hood, the structures are historic resources, and they're currently fighting to save dozens of other "run down" structures that are nevertheless the heritage of the Hancock corridor and Reese Street. Historic preservation isn't about preserving only the most deserving/aesthetically perfect/affluent neighborhoods.
Right Nicki. Historic preservation isn't about preserving only the most deserving/aesthetically perfect/affluent neighborhoods.
It's about preserving the neighborhoods that the aesthetically perfect/affluent will eventually move into and take over.
There sure seems to be alot of people in historically black neighborhoods driving Saabs with bike racks. For being the “Heritage” Foundation they sure seem far more interested in just protecting structures rather than keep neighborhoods intact.
Yeah... Like the Lyndon House. Tons of rich people live there.
Assuming that the heritage foundation is motivated by self-interest in such a fashion is weird.
Yeah... Like the Lyndon House. Tons of poor people go there.
If you really want to save neighborhoods, stop taxing poor old people out of their homes.
Ah, right. The ACHF is responsible for all the market forces that affect all historic areas. Righto.
I find it kinda funny that someone who advocates for letting affluent white kids bulldoze historic housing stock in poor, black neighborhoods get all self-righteous about the potentially negative impact of saving that stock on behalf of poor black people. That's deliciously rich.
I'd also like to point out that Reese Street wants to be designated. So it's not like ACHF just decided to do all this unilaterally for the benefit of the Volvo drivers. The immediate benefit, by the way, is that every resident in that historic district in a historic house will get a property tax freeze.
Oh, and finally, ACHF does Hands On Athens every single year...which is exclusively dedicated to keeping poor people in their homes by helping them maintain their homes and/or adapt them. So your comment about structures vs. 'hoods just ain't true.
"I find it kinda funny that someone who advocates for letting affluent white kids bulldoze historic housing stock in poor, black neighborhoods."
Uhhhhh…… I’m not advocating anything except sticking something in the eye of a few self-righteous hippies. You decided to taunt the Greek organizations by pushing for back door moratoria and now you wonder why they don’t trust you?
I did no such thing. In fact, I have specifically said that I defend KA's right to do whatever is legal within our land use laws. Which this is -- but it's also arrogant and unintelligent given the history of that decision.
And Jeff, I'd be a lot more impressed with your arguments if they weren't patently, demonstrably, incredibly false.
To be fair Nicki, I think you and Jeff are arguing different things. I think the issues of gentrification and property tax burdens on the poor are important issues to address - and ones that AAHF may or may not be addressing - so, while he may be muddying the waters with regard to the moratorium (which was rather last-minute, but I can't find any indication that AAHF was behind such a move), I don't necessarily think that's germane to the talk at hand.
My problem is this assertion that the actions by the KAs are 'arrogant' or 'ill-advised' in the context of this discussion. I don't know why it is that the actions taken by a private property owner regarding structures on land they rightfully own (and, by the by, were required to purchase by local law to meet density requirements) are necessarily arrogant.
Shoot, I can't even begin to fathom such an argument. I think you can make a coherent and rational one that the KAs could have taken a more community-inclusive line of action by delaying demolition and continuing to work with AAHF and the neighborhood, but ultimately what they did on their property is within their own rights ... and I don't see how that's 'arrogant' at all.
Frankly, what I find arrogant is the final line in Kissane's letter which states that AAHF has revoked its invitation to the KAs to participate in Hands On Athens. That's preposterous and shows a terribly petty view of the world. Rather than make good on a way to bring the students into the community, even after something like the demolition, they take their ball and go home.
Of course, quite frankly, I find it somewhat incredulous that AAHF and the neighborhood were ever fully thinking that this was going to work out. Demolition or no demolition, the factions were going to be sniping at each behind the scenes. In some cynical way, applaud the KAs for at least putting all of this nonsense of working together behind us.
My issue with Nicki's general point of view on this is the tremendous burden she places on KA for maintaing the relationship. In my mind KA has no problem taking steps to be the best neighbor they can be. We can't demand this relationship be placed above the group's own self preservation, however. It is an unfair and unrealistic expectation. It was this self preservation that KA had in mind when kicked off campus after 50+ years by an ego-maniac and given no options. They took the initiative and worked with the city and county to find a suitable location. The neighborhood was 70% rental, 70% non-family and 60+% white. No families were displaced by KA and there was another fraternity of similar heritage nearby along with a confederate museum.
But what about this relationship that KA is destroying? Was Nicki there when residents screamed in college kids' faces and told them their house was going to be burned down? Was she there when their cars were vandalized outside of a town meeting they were participating in? I suspect not. Every organization (even UGA) has history they are not proud of. It this held against every orgnization equally, or framed for use against some in a larger way. This should remain a zoning issue, not a racial one. The bottom line with this zoning issue is that after being given no initial choice by UGA, KA sought to preserve their existence through legal avenues working with the city and county. Don't blame them for this. The real enemy here is Mike Adams hisself.
And I'm not one who advocates for letting affluent white kids bulldoze historic housing. I'm for giving people who own property the rights to reasonable use of their property.
Before you start calling bullshit, check your own feedbag.
The neighborhood was 70% rental, 70% non-family and 60+% white.
Huh?
I'll buy that, JMac...not bothering to pretend is laudable in its own screwy way. But I'm not going to explain a second time why this relationship has gone the way it has. KA broke off negotiations, plain and simple, and if they had not entered negotiations then there'd be no outcry.
And anonymous, why would I be at a meeting called to oppose something I don't oppose? Let me repeat: I think KA is entitled to do whatever is logical within the land use laws. And they permit this type of development. What KA did wasn't smart from a PR perspective, and it wasn't necessary -- but they're legally entitled to do it.
Jeff, I'm done with you until you're capable of making an argument. Without lying, that is. So I assume I'm done for a long, long time.
"What KA did wasn't smart from a PR perspective"
Sure, when you assume that the public agrees with you. There are, however, plenty of people who believe they have private property rights and many of them side with the KAs.
And there is really no argument here. The houses are gone.
This is yet another example where divisiveness caused everyone to lose something. Maybe the ACHF can have a better attitude next time. It will probably help.
Nicki-I guess there comes a point when making a supposedly bad "PR move" as you would say really doesn't matter anymore. Without self preservation in mind, there would be no entity to worry about PR for. I'm also not entirely convinved that this was a PR move. The majority of the feedback I get is that people are happy about the demolition of the houses and respect KA's rights. I actually think there is a backlash against those who voiced the outcry.
JMSnowden-the statistics provided are estimates from the 2006 US Census for the North Church Hancock intersection. I'm sure by now the area has grown even more white, rental, and non-family.
There are, however, plenty of people who believe they have private property rights...
There's that lying again.
While Amy Kissane has done much professionally to "preserve" "historic" Athens, she sure hasn't done much personally. During the past 20 years dozens, if not HUNDREDS, of speculators have rehabilated homes in historic (and contiguous to) neighborhoods. Sure they did it for a profit, but Kissane too earns a living "preserving" "historic" Athens.
Kudos to KA for exercising their private property rights and doing what they believe will improve the neighborhood. Mark your calendar for twenty years from now to drive by and see for yourself.
You do have private property rights.
For now.
Commissioners will meet today to discuss eroding a few more of them.
This post from www.stuffwhitepeoplelike.com is fitting commentary on the subject:
In general, white people love situations where they can’t lose. While this does account for the majority of their situations, perhaps the safest bet a white person can make is to buy a house in an up-and-coming neighborhood.
White people like to live in these neighborhoods because they get credibility and respect from other white people for living in a more “authentic” neighborhood where they are exposed to “true culture” every day. So whenever their friends mention their home in the suburbs or richer urban area, these people can say “oh, it’s so boring out there, so fake. In our neighborhood, things are just more real.” This superiority is important as white people jockey for position in their circle of friends.
They are like a modern day Lewis and Clark, except instead of searching for the ocean, they are searching for old properties to renovate.
In a few years, if more white people start moving in, these initial trailblazers will sell their property for triple what they paid and move into an ultramodern home.
Credibility or money, they can’t lose!
When one of these white people tell you where they live, you should say “whoa, it’s pretty rough down there. I don’t think I could live there.” This will make them feel even better about their credibility and status as neighborhood pioneers.
Yeah... Like the Lyndon House. Tons of poor people go there.
I guess they can't pass that income test at the door...
Can poor people not appreciate the arts when they're free?
It's not the door that has the income test. It's the people inside.
Like so many other groups in this town, ACHF likes it's poor for martyrs and posters only. This "historically black" neighborhood they are saving is more than half white and growing whiter each day. Funny, no one seems interested in saving the historical blackness of the historically black neighborhood. They just want to save the buildings.
You're totally full of shit, snowden. It amazes me you can run a business, given how challenged you are merely to tell the truth, not slander anyone, and exhibit basic reading comprehension skills. Does your wife run it for you?
It's not the door that has the income test. It's the people inside.
This is nonsense. I know plenty of people on the board of the Lyndon House, and they are welcoming and not rich.
Like so many other groups in this town, ACHF likes it's poor for martyrs and posters only. This "historically black" neighborhood they are saving is more than half white and growing whiter each day. Funny, no one seems interested in saving the historical blackness of the historically black neighborhood. They just want to save the buildings.
So you don't believe in capitalism? I mean, I don't really either (land trusts would probably be the best way both to preserve the buildings and the neighborhood), but I just want to make sure I know where you're coming from. And where you'd like everyone to live.
Something that drives me batty about this whole discussion is the lack of understanding (not by Hillary) on what forces are at work here.
ACHF is a private foundation, and it was negotiating with the city historic pres. commission and the KAs on the project because of the pending Reese Street designation (which is between, more or less, ACHF and the city -- the city will do the designation, but ACHF has done a lot of the preliminary research and facilitated a lot of neighborhood meetings leading up to it), etc. It also works with the Athens Land Trust (which is less political) on Hands on Athens and other initiatives which specifically address the low-income residents of ALT's target 'hoods (Hancock is one, not sure which are the others).
And all of the in-town 'hoods are under some pressure not due to these nonprofits, but because of market forces. New Town has roughly 50 new structures in it, and most in-town houses have appreciated radically, particularly from the late 90s to now. ALT will tell you this hampers them significantly, because they now spend triple what they used to spend on acquiring each house, and that means they can't help as many people.
Poor people...ACHF has a good number of lower-middle-class people affiliated with it. Projects they've worked on include HOA, which exclusively assists poor residents. ALT has stakeholders/owners of their property on their board, who are by definition the working poor -- I seem to recall that currently a shipping clerk and a custodian are on it.
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